Salve!
Okay, I've been reading and listening to a lot coming out of the Obama Camp and I at least like more of what I am hearing from them than what I'm hearing from the Clinton Camp.
My question is does anyone know any reason why we, as Christians, "shouldn't" vote for Barack Obama?
Please offer reasonable objections...
Thanks you and God Bless.
Barack Obama - Info and Opinion
Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by bound, Jul 17, 2007.
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There's only a 50-50 chance that you are going to vote for the "right" person and there's a 50-50 chance you are going to directly defy God.
I think it would just be easier to allow God to handle what He said He was going to handle, because my vote doesn't mean a hill of beans :). -
These are my personal issues I want to make certain the candidate that I chose to vote for completely agree upon prior to nominating them to represent me and this country. Duncan Hunter and I are in agreeance on these issues.
1. What is their stance on abortion?
2. What is their stance on the complete Sodomite Agenda?
3. What is their stance on Israel?
4. What is their stance on immigration?
5. What is their stance on Gun Control?
I may have forgotten an issue or two, but this is what I have thus far.
Clinton, Obama, Rudy, Mit, McCain, Edwards, count them out in my book. I believe that true Christians would not dare cast a vote in favor of someone or in support of someone who believes in the rights of sodomites and believe abortion is a personal choice that is to be made by the mother, that is a cop-out. -
...his association to the Trinity United Church of Christ which is a racist, pro-sodomy, pro-abortion organization.
...his advocacy for killing babies, including partially birthed ones.
...his support of "gay unions" and "gay equality".
...his rewarding lawlessness via allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security etc. and earned citizenship.
...his belief that the Constitution is a living document which explains why he's opposed to the 2nd amendment and favors gun control.
He has a couple of things going for him...
...he's opposed to the Use of Military Force in Iraq.
...he recognizes that the Patriot Act is an attack on civil liberties.
However, his wickedness far outweighs his good, in my view. -
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I like Senator Obama. I like that he is a professing and practicing Christian. I like that he is sincere (or appears to be) about uniting people. I like that Senator Obama talks about helping the poor, and then does something about it. I like that he wants to engage in dialogue. I like that he cares about reaching across the aisle to find solutions to world issues like hunger, poverty, AIDS crisis, etc.
You've asked a very difficult question because many here and in our churches believe that our vote is more a question of Christian duty than anything else. We have told them (wrongly) from our pulpits that we can boil down the issues to black and white (sorry, no pun intended) issues which we cannot find common ground on.
If the failure of the Moral Majority of the last twenty years has taught us anything it is that the Church cannot be involved with legislating our beliefs and expect social change. We cannot decide to legislate sin our of laws because it will still exist in our hearts. The Christian Right (which maybe I'm a member of, I don't know anymore) has loudly proclaimed "You are either with us or against us" and if you won't follow our laws we don't want you. We have, arrogantly, allowed politicians to corrupt our churches and dull our discernment of flawed character for perceived seat at the table. And worse, we have said that we can legislate our beliefs into law and then have nothing to do with the lawbreakers. We should be first here to minister to those who need healing and lastly to those who want to corrupt us with smooth words to satisfy our itching ears.
I will never tell someone to vote for or against someone in an election. It is not my place as a minister to do so. I have my beliefs about government and governence. In the 30 years since Roe we have seen that legislating or attempting legislate will never change hearts...only the Gospel can do that.
Politics bloodies the Bride of Christ. We should do everything we can to avoid it. btw...I heartily recommend The Myth of a Christian Nation by Greg Boyd for some compelling thoughts. :) -
1. What is their stance on the Supreme Court?
2. What is their stance on human rights?
3. What is their stance on the Middle East?
4. What is their stance on illegal immigration?
5. What is their stance on fiscal and monetary management? -
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preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
What if my Christianity isn't founded on these issues and rather I am worried about other issues that are more profound as I view them or I simply don't agree with your stance. I my opinion, you can be completely Christian and still affirm the central tennents of many "liberal" political choices while denying the actual actions that take place in them.
While I am extremely conservative politically, I don't believe we need to use our mutual faith as a weapon to beat someone down who happens to disagree with us over some issues. -
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By looking at the fruits of his labor or what he would love to be fruits of his labor, I can clearly see he does not represent Christ in his actions or his words.
Profession Christian is all he is, he is not practicing. The church he is a member of is far from Christian. -
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"Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother." - Jesus
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King Nebuchadnezzar was appointed by God to his position to rule over the entire known world. He chose the government, he chose the religion for the people, he chose everything, he was placed there by God, hand picked. And he openly opposed the God of the Jews. So, when the Hebrews decided to buck against the system and go against the king, were they going against God because he placed Nebuchadnezzar in that position? -
Why support the actions of the liberals and their agenda by voting them into office and at the same time deny their actual actions?
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
Nothing "Christian" based in what I'll say:
I don't like him, period.
No Scripture against that, no Scripture for that, no law against that, either.
My vote, and that of my friends, relatives, and family, goes to either Fred Thompson, or Ron Paul. -
Now since you voted against Bill Clinton you were directly violating God's plans, because it was obviously within His plans for Bill Clinton to be President of the United States both times.
Once again do you think God is just going to slap you on the back and say nice try ole boy get'em next time?
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preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Look at what you just did. You marginalized and exacerbated a comment and immediately put super-evangelical spin on it. This is exactly what I am talking about. We choose positions, get in our corners, and coming out swinging at anyone who voices a perceived difference of opinion.
Here's the big thing. My huge point is it doesn't matter what we legislate we can't force life change on people and sell off our birthright as the Church when we partner with politicians to force Christian values on an unchurched, post-Christian society.
Now we get into a labels game. What is "liberal" and what is "true Christianity"? It is a difference of degrees.
I'd suggest that feeding the poor, clothing the naked, and giving shelter to the homeless is inherently Christian. I'd even take it a step further and suggest that it is Christian to provide for the widows and orphans in need. Now when a "liberal" does this they get lambasted...because they have seen the absolute failure of the Church to do so and the government has stepped in and it's called Welfare and Medicare and Social Security...yet in the NT it's called James 1:27.
The hardest issue is that we start playing the labels game and force people to take positions, or foist positions on people when it isn't our business to do so.
Who are the liberals and who are the conservatives? In Europe you'll find a completely different definition. Why must there be categories?
Is not the point of a federal constitutional republic you can vote for that person who will represent you in office and not the party they are associated with?
The minute we believers think that the Republican Party is a) our friend, b) respects us, or c) shares our true values we lie to ourselves and make a harlot of our pulpits. Same with the Democratic Party.
Politics isn't the answer, it absolutely isn't the answer. Taking the Gospel to people and finding ways to meet their needs before government intervention happens is where the Church should be. We shouldn't be protesting abortion clinics we should be offering alternatives to those women before they even get there. The Church should be the place where people turn to get their true needs met. If we believe legislating a particular brand of theology or ideology is going to accomplish that we have lost the lessons of the failure of the political activism of the Christian Right.
The Church should be advocating Christ...not candidate XYZ. And it is a pox on our beliefs to suggest we can do so.
Well we don't know each other and will not meet this side of eternity (of course many around here probably now believe I won't be on the Heavenly side I guess...maybe that makes my point) but I assure you I am probably more conservative than most here. The dangerous thing about my conservativism is I know why I am conservative and haven't bought the misguided message from the RNC or any other political think tank group.
I'm just asking us to stop making categories to deny people access to forgiveness and true grace..stop polarizing our congregations on worldly issues and start making efforts to embrace graceful living. -
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
A bit of a postscript here...
I find it truly disheartening that so many evangelical, conservative Christians say they want a candidate that is a fine conservative, strong Christian and ignore Mike Huckabee. That blows my mind. Here is a guy who is an ordained Baptist minister, who is a tride and true conservative, has led thousands to Christ through his ministry and personally, is a strict biblicist, and has been through the evangelical ringer in terms of education but most "conservative Christians" won't give him a second glance because he "isn't a true candidate" or "doesn't have the political muscle"...
that is a prime example of evangelicals playing politics and ignoring their true Christian beliefs...and is exactly what I'm talking about... -
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I haven't heard mention of Duncan Hunter in many Christian circles either. He is right on concerning, abortion, sodomite rights, and illegal immigration.
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