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Featured Believers must endure in the faith to the end of life to be saved

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Samuels, Mar 8, 2017.

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  1. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    John states clearly that ...
    there must be continuing belief/faith for there to be continuing salvation/eternal life:
    John 3:15-16 • that whoever believes [present tense - continues to believe] in him
    may have [present tense - may continue to have] eternal life.
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son,
    that whoever believes [present tense - continues to believe] in him
    should not perish but have [present tense - continue to have] eternal life.

    Colossians 1:22-23 • He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — if indeed you continue in the faith,
    grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel


    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 • Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved,
    if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

    Hebrews 2:1-4 • Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard,
    lest we drift away. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast,
    and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward,
    how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation


    Hebrews 6:11-12 • And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full
    assurance of hope until the end, that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those
    who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

    Hebrews 10:36-39 • For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: “For yet a little while, and He who is coming will come
    and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back,
    My soul has no pleasure in him.” But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
    but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. … Lots of wishful thinking here!

    1 Timothy 4:16 • Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them,
    for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

    Jude 1:20-21 • But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith,
    praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God,
    looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

    Philippians 2:12-16 • … work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
    … that you may (not will) become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault
    … holding fast the word of life, so that I may (not will) rejoice in the day of Christ
    that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.

    1 Peter 1:5-9 • … the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that
    perishes, though it is tested by fire, may (not will) be found to praise, honor, and glory at
    the revelation of Jesus Christ … receiving the end of your faith — the salvation of your souls.

    1 Timothy 6:9-14 • But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into
    many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition (i.e. hell).
    For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called … I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus … that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing

    Revelation 2:10 • Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison,
    that you may (will) be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days.
    Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of (eternal) life.

    James 1:12 • Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
    he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

    Hebrews 3:6,14 • Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are,
    if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
    … For we have become partakers of Christ,
    if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

    2 Timothy 2:12If we endure, we shall also reign with Him.
    If we deny Him, He also will deny us.


    Because of all of the above verses

    1) Christians see the following passage as having a double-meaning:
    Matthew 10:22 • But he who endures to the end (of his life) will be saved.
    (also Mark 13:13, Matthew 24:13)

    2) Eternal life is actually granted (or denied) some time after one dies!
     
    #1 Samuels, Mar 8, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We have eternal life right now, once we believe in Jesus, and those really saved shall endure unto death!
     
  3. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Those chosen by God will persevere.

    We do not work to remain saved. We do good works because we are saved.
    We do not obey in order to be saved. We obey because we are saved.

    Why would anyone think that our actions save us? What would you do when God ordains a brain injury that results in random cursing from the man who served God faithfully? Is that man now no longer saved?
    How silly to think that we were saved by grace, yet we have to maintain our salvation by works.
     
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  4. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    God does NOT force anyone to stay saved ... by violating their free will.
    By choice ...
    some fall away from the faith, some draw back to perdition, some fall from grace
    ... which is to say ... some do NOT endure until their end.

    All of the warnings are to keep the truly elect in line ...
    obedience, enduring in faith until the end (includes martyrdom, if req'd).
    But, God doesn't force them to do these saving things!
    Our co-operation is required ... and this is NOT forced upon us!

    This is part of what James was insisting on ... FAITH + WORKS
     
  5. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    All about the man, not one thing about God.

    So, how do you remain saved when othere fall by the wayside?
     
  6. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Where do I say God forces us.

    Did Jesus force sight on the blind when he chose to heal them? Did the blind choose to go back to blindness once they could see?

    Do you understand the foolishness of your position?
     
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  7. annsni

    annsni Administrator
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    Ephesians 2 tells us "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus."

    So we are seated with God in the heavens places so that in the coming age He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us. Where do we see that we get tossed out in this passage?
     
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  8. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    Great opening, excellent verses, horrible eisegesis. To quote Meat Loaf....two out of three ain't bad. :Thumbsup
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    IF God really does unsave his chosen people, that means that he must reject what did Jesus did at the Cross for us!
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    It would mean that God is unfaithfull (just as God abandoning Christ on the cross would mean He is unfaithful). That God did not abandon Christ is our assurance He will not abandon us. There is a consistency to scripture.
     
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  11. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    So, what sayest thou about the verses in the OP?
     
  12. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    It depends on who the "us" are.
    Are believers who are habitual unrepentant sinners part of your "us" group?

    Also, I don't deal in "one passage" proofs.
    I deal in spiritual truths which have 10 or more proof verses.
    Examples: practicing righteousness req'd, obedience req'd, endurance req'd.
     
  13. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    I would suggest that you had better start proving your opinion.
    The eternal destiny of readers here is at stake.
    Which verse would you like to begin with?

    OSASers never deal with the opposing verses.
    The 2 sets of verses must be reconciled to fit together to make sense.

    So, if you cannot prove anything, start reconciling.
     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I would suggest that you had better start proving your opinion.
     
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  15. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    You again!
    Thou had best start proving where my verses are incorrectly perceived.
    Why not commence with the first verse?
    But, as always, a plethora of proof texts is more impressive that just a few.
     
  16. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Are you people MB's stand-ins?
    He's the one who requested the info in the OP.
    But, it appears that he's a no-show.
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    We have already been through this, and it has been shown that what you believe is the doctrine of eternal security is in fact a counterfeit. My comment is more along the lines that your conclusion is foreign to the Scriptures you provide.

    None of the passages you provide deny eternal security (that those who believe have eternal life). Your argument, better articulated, is that man cannot be saved (they cannot possess a faith that endures) in this lifetime. So their salvation depends on dying while they are in a state of belief. If I have misunderstood your posistiom, then prove it.
     
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Nope no proof yet! Try again.
     
  19. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Are you joking? ... Absolutely!
    Belief, faith, everything ... must endure.
    Just read the verses.
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    Colossians 1:22-23 • He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel

    We will be presented as blameless IF WE CONTINUE IN THE FAITH. (OSAS does not deny this).

    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 • Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

    Again, those who are saved are those who hold fast. This is the doctrine of eternal security. Those who hold fast are those who are saved.
     
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