Blinded Minds

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SheepWhisperer, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. SheepWhisperer Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    46
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I just saw an article in SBC Today. I will summarize:

    John Piper, a well known Calvinist, points out that Satan "blinds the minds" of the lost. This is true. But why would there be a need to "blind their minds" to the Gospel, if sinners are already so "dead" that they already have "total inability"?
     
  2. BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Good point.

    Their hearts cannot "Be hardened" if they are already totally depraved totally dead
    Their eyes cannot "be blinded" either.

    You have to "have ability" first -- before you can "have it removed".

    They are dead "in sin" and they are spiritually dead... but this does not mean that every 7 year old is as fully devoted to evil as Hitler... the life process brings hardening or softening even for someone who is not saved.
     
  3. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    33,935
    Likes Received:
    836
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Satan is doing the role/task God assigned to Him while doing that!
     
  4. SheepWhisperer Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    46
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Sir, Satan CHOSE to rebel against God, and he chose to be the evil "angel of light" , deceiver, liar, murderer and "accuser of the brethren" that he is now. God s not the instigator of sin.
     
  5. Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    43,813
    Likes Received:
    1,770
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So man is dead because Satan blinds man? TCassidy argues that man is dead because of his nature. So which is it? How does being totally depraved fall into that?
     
  6. JonC Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    12,457
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That's just an extra precaution, just in case someone starts to believe.
     
  7. Reformed Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,834
    Likes Received:
    661
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think John Piper may have had this verse in mind:

    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

    Just because a sinner is dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1; Col. 2:13) does not mean he is any less deceived by the enemy. One does not negate the other. In Ephesians 2, Paul writes:

    Ephesians 2:1-2 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.

    After Paul reminds the Ephesian believers of their previous spiritual condition, he attaches that condition to having formerly walked according to "the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air", Satan. So, not only were they once spiritually dead, they also were deceived by Satan. Instead of calling it "the best of both worlds", we can call it "the worst of both worlds".
     
  8. utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,195
    Likes Received:
    117
    Satan does God will now......brilliant.
     
  9. utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,195
    Likes Received:
    117
    I often wonder at what stage does common sense get regenerated.
     
  10. thatbrian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,685
    Likes Received:
    376
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Of course, Satan does God's biding. Read the story of Job. Satan needed permission before he did anything regarding Job, and Go limited what he could do to Job.

    Also, God used evil enemies of Israel to discipline Israel.

    So the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he gave them over to plunderers, who plundered them. And he sold them into the hand of their surrounding enemies, so that they could no longer withstand their enemies. (Judges 2:4)

    God could have destroyed Satan at any time, but he is serving a purpose.
     
  11. thatbrian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,685
    Likes Received:
    376
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well said. When in doubt, go to the text. "You were dead. . . you walked"
     
  12. utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,195
    Likes Received:
    117
    Satan does not do God's will, snap out of it.

    In the entire book of JOB he acts in SIN. There is subtle accusations against God, Same way Calvinist accuse God of being merciless by acting surprised and shocked when God shows mercy. "oh can you ever believe God showed mercy on me!?" says the accuser.

    1 john 3

    7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
     
  13. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    33,935
    Likes Received:
    836
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, for the Holy Spirit is at working to give blind sinners spiritual sight, same way, satan helps to keep the lost to remain in spiritual ignorance.
     
  14. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    33,935
    Likes Received:
    836
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Don't all creatures, or are there some outside of the will ans power of God?
     
  15. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    33,935
    Likes Received:
    836
    Faith:
    Baptist
    IF Satan does not do the will of God, is he more powerful than God?
     
  16. thatbrian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,685
    Likes Received:
    376
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do you do God's will?
     
  17. thatbrian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,685
    Likes Received:
    376
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes. No one can frustrate the will of God. If they could, they would be god.
     
  18. SheepWhisperer Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    46
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Seriously? There are monsters who abuse little kids every day; are they doing the will of God? are they more powerful than God?
     
  19. thatbrian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,685
    Likes Received:
    376
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God allows these things to happen. He uses even evil for His purposes. If God did not allow these things to happen, they would not.

     
  20. Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    24,857
    Likes Received:
    530
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How about the Job synerio?