Asking questions is not smearing. Its asking a question.
Please point out where I said it was Babe's fault. Wasn't his fault, but it is still part of history
Surely you jest. Read "BALL FOUR" and "JOE, YOU COULDA MADE US PROUD", both books which talk about the number of players taking greenies during that time period. Any player from that era, is suspect when it comes to use of amphetamines, just as players of this era will be suspect of using steriods. Of course one big factor would be that Aaron himself wrote in his autobiography:
"Actually the 1968 season wasn't the best time to present my case. It was the first time since my rookie year that I didn't drive in or scored 100 runs. I was so frustrated that at one point I tried using a greenie that one of my teamates gave me."
Maybe that is one of the reasons that Aaron was so classy in his video salute to Bonds last night...maybe he knows we have all sinned at one point or another.
Doesn't mean they didn't. Again, any player in this current era of baseball will be suspected of steriods...even if its a 1% doubt.
I'll just wait for another young exciting hitter to come along before I start rooting for someone to break the record...when anyone I'm rooting for now may have used performance enhancements.
I think there is a fundamental flaw in how people think about steriods effecting performance. Under the logic many use, guess Hulk Hogan should be at the top of the home run list.
I think more credit for Bonds record might actually be because of:
NEW YORK (Commentary) Beyond his alleged steroid use, Barry Bonds is guilty of the use of something that confers extraordinarily unfair mechanical advantage: the “armor” that he wears on his right elbow. Amid the press frenzy over Bonds’ unnatural bulk, the true role of the object on his right arm has simply gone unnoticed.
This is unfortunate, because by my estimate, Bonds’ front arm “armor” may have contributed no fewer than 75 to 100 home runs to his already steroid-questionable total.
Bonds tied Henry Aaron’s home run record of 755 on Saturday night and will go for the new standard this week back at home in San Francisco.
As a student of baseball – and currently a mechanics consultant to a major league baseball team -- I believe I have insight into the Bonds "achievement." I have studied his swing countless times on video and examined the mechanical gear closely through photographs.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003621797
Bonds ties Aaron
Discussion in 'Sports Forum' started by TomVols, Aug 6, 2007.
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Rock,
So Aaron admits to trying one greenie? That is far different than building a fake body with PED's. Yes, we all understand that just being strong doesn't make you a great hitter. Sad thing is, Bonds was a great hitter before he started juicing. His juicing only took his talents to a whole other level and gave him a longer career.
That is an interesting article on the armor. I think a non-cheating Barry Bonds would have hit about 600 homers. Maybe half (of his add'l 150) are due to his armor and the other half due to juicing. -
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You claimed there were no accusations and no evidence. Sorry..but a simple google search shows otherwise. -
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And don't call me Shirley.
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Steroids do provide muscle, help heal from injury...but they can also be the cause of injuries. Lots of people have tested positive for steroids, but they didn't have the bat speed or eye coordination of Bonds.
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Rock,
PED's can make a talented hitter (Bonds) into an even greater hitter. With the benefit of PED's, when Bonds normally hits a warning track flyball, it now becomes a homer. How hard is that to understand? -
Every time I see him crowd the plate with his elbow hanging over the plate, I long for the days of Bob Gibson and Don Drysdale!!!!! -
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MODERATOR'S WARNING:
Guys, this is a fellowship forum. If you want to critique an argument or opinion, fine. But no insult of any kind, no matter how seemingly innocuous, will be tolerated. We're all big boys and girls, but big boys and big girls don't go negative just because there is disagreement. -
Note the part of my response that states".... he could have got in baseball back in the mid80s...."
Of course in one interview, the Hulkster said he started doing steroids in 1975, so guess it would have been the mid 70s, given his age that he would have gone into MLB. -
1. Congrats to Andy for bringing to light the whole segregation bromide. Drives me crazy. RockRambler does have a point that we don't know how many "bad" white players would've been supplanted by Negro leaguers. And that's the point. Why should Babe thus be penalized? Who's to say the Negro leaguers would've been in the Majors? That door swings both ways.
2. Rock mentioned Jim Bouton's Ball Four. Some consider it an earlier version of Jose Canseco's writings. It is one man's opinion.
3. Rock is right that the era will probably be questioned. However, I don't think this rising tide will raise all the boats. Not everyone will be under such scrutiny. Maybe they should. Unless there's evidence, I don't think someone should automatically be considered guilty.
4. Hulk Hogan as a baseball player? Come on. Does that mean Floyd Landis would be a .300 hitter if he donned spikes? Apples to oranges. It is true that roids will not make a player hit a baseball. However, it will make him hit it further and hit it for longer periods of time. That is not in question. So while I appreciate the athleticism it took to get to this point, I can't be so blind as to not factor in that he was aided in his attempt to reach the goal with something out of a bottle that, while not illegal in the strictest sense, is enough of a negative that we're having the conversation.
I'd like to see us get back on topic. That is, Bonds hit 755. That's moot since he hit 756 though ;) And if we want to discuss this more, we can (ugh) but do so in a thread-appropriate forum per BB rules. -
But bottom line, all records in baseball are generally questioned by the era if nothing else. Still doesn't change whether someone used alcohol, greenies, or steroids, Barry Bonds is the home run king...but for how long???? -
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