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Featured Calvinism Fact Sheet #2, by Joel Barnes: Unconditional Election

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Alan Gross, Mar 30, 2021.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Unconditional Election

    It would have been perfectly just for God to have left all men in their sin and misery and to have shown mercy to none. God was under no obligation whatsoever to provide salvation for anyone. It is in this context that the Bible sets forth the doctrine of election.

    The doctrine of election declares that God, before the foundation of the world, chose certain individuals from among the fallen members of Adam’s race to be the objects of his undeserved favor. These, and these only, he purposed to save. God could have chosen to save all men (for he had the power and authority to do so) or he could have chosen to save none (for he was under no obligation to show mercy to any) - but he did neither. Instead, he chose to save some and to exclude others. His eternal choice of particular sinners for salvation was not based upon any foreseen act or response on the part of those selected, but was based solely on his own good pleasure and sovereign will. Thus, election was not determined by, or conditioned upon, anything that men would do, but resulted entirely from God’s self-determined purpose.

    Those who were not chosen for salvation were passed by and left to their own evil devices and choices. It is not within the creature’s jurisdiction to call into question the justice of the creator for not choosing everyone for salvation. It is enough to know that the judge of the earth has done right. It should, however, be kept in mind that if God had not graciously chosen a people for himself and sovereignly determined to provide salvation for them and apply it to them, none would be saved. The fact that he did this for some, to the exclusion of others, is in no way unfair to the latter group, unless of course one maintains that God was under obligation to provide salvation for sinners - a position which the Bible utterly rejects.

    The act of election itself saved no one; what it did was to mark out certain individuals for salvation. Consequently, the doctrine of election must not be divorced from the doctrines of human guilt, redemption, and regeneration, or else it will be distorted and misrepresented. In other words, if the Father’s act of election is to be kept in its proper biblical balance and correctly understood, it must be related to the redeeming work of the Son, who gave himself to save the elect, and to the renewing work of the Spirit, who brings the elect to faith in Christ.



    A Chosen People

    Deuteronomy 10:14-15;

    Psalm 33:12;

    Psalm 65:4;

    Psalm 106:5;

    Haggai 2:23;

    Matthew 11:27;

    Matthew 22:14;

    Matthew 22:22;

    Matthew 22:24;

    Matthew 24:31;

    Luke 18:7;

    Romans 8:28-30;

    Romans 8:33;

    Romans 11:28;

    Colossians 3:12;

    1 Thessalonians 5:9;

    Titus 1:1;

    1 Peter 1:1-2;

    1 Peter 2:8-9;

    Revelation 17:14.

    Election Not Based on Foreseen Responses

    Mark 13:20; John 15:16; Acts 13:48; Acts 18:27; Romans 9:11-13; Romans 9:16; Romans 10:20; 1 Corinthians 1:27-29; Philippians 1:29; Philippians 2:12-13; Ephesians 1:4; Ephesians 2:10; 1 Thessalonians 1:4-5; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 2 Timothy 1:9; James 2:5; Revelation 13:8; Revelation 17:8.

    Election Precedes Salvation

    Acts 13:48; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:4; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 2 Timothy 2:10.

    Election Based on Sovereign Mercy

    Exodus 33:19; Deuteronomy 7:6-7; Matthew 20:15; Romans 9:10-24; Romans 11:4-6; Romans 11:33-36; Ephesians 1:5.
     
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  2. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    [Ezekiel 18:30-32 NKJV]
    30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways," says the Lord GOD. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31 "Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? 32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies," says the Lord GOD. "Therefore turn and live!"​

    [1 Timothy 2:1-4 NKJV]
    1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.​

    Is God just blowing smoke? Mocking?
     
  3. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I might argue God's example is THE ONLY JUST course, And the idea there is hypothetical EQUAL justice to GOD's chosen course in doing it differently is an error. There is no two perfects here, his way is the only right way.

    The western and pagan view of "JUSTICE" is based on retribution, The HEBREW word of JUSTICE is same as CHARITY!

    A JUSTICE devoid of Love is devoid of God too.

    In other words only a sinful person would leave all men in their sin and misery and show mercy to none.

    I might have a RIGHT to demolish my own home, doesn't disqualify me from being in error if I do it.


    God made his sincere desire and will known obvious in his command, He wants all to repent and doesn't want anyone to sin.
     
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  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Talking to National Israel:
    repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions;
    this is to be understood of a national repentance for national sins, to prevent national judgments, being an address to the whole house of Israel; and not of evangelical repentance, which is the gift of God, and of an external reformation, as the fruit of it; and not of the first work of internal conversion, which is by the powerful and efficacious grace of God; though, were both exhorted to, it would not prove that these are in the power of men, only show the want and necessity of them, and so be the means of God's bringing his chosen people to them. The phrase, "yourselves", is not in the original; both words used signify "to turn"; and may be rendered and explained thus, "turn" yourselves, and "cause [others] to turn" F16; let every man turn himself from his evil courses, and do all he can to turn his brother, or his neighbour, from the same; so Jarchi, Kimchi, and Ben Melech interpret them. The Targum is,

    ``turn you to my worship, and remove from you the worship of idols:''

    ...

    The second verse does not exclude any nationality, by saying, "all".
     
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    quite a twist.
     
  6. Titus Tarnum

    Titus Tarnum Member

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    Though God could've chose not to save humanity that wasn't the case and this fact is evident in two ways; one Christ was slain before the foundation of the world so God always planned to pay the price for our sin and two, God wrote every person's name in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of World. In no place does the Bible say that the Book of Life is a record of persons God planned to save. Everyone's name starts out in it because it is a record of everyone God planned to create through Adam making it a Book of Creation, written before creation.
    If you say otherwise and assert only saved persons start out in the Book, then only saved people can be removed from the Book and you kill the concept of eternal security. (And you support Article 5 of the Remonstrance)
    If God wrote everyones name in the Book before the foundation of the world that means that they started out as His creations and He truly wanted them. Only after you no longer are one of His creations and truly become a child of the devil will God (with great sadness I am sure) remove your name from His Book.

    This concept is good for eternal security because it means that it is likely that only persons who never are saved have their name removed from the the Book.

    This doesn't effect God's sovereignty in choosing your destiny either since God is omniscient He has always known who He "could" save and who He wouldn't be able able to convince with "irresistible grace". The thing that changes is God's motive for saving some and not all, that being the third party that is normally ignored as a reason constraining God, which is a war in Heaven and a spiritual battle going on around everyone against Satan and his cohorts.


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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    None are born in a right relationship with God, so how can all names be recorded down, as when born none are right with Him?
     
  8. Titus Tarnum

    Titus Tarnum Member

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    Would God know your "lineage" beforehand?


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  9. Titus Tarnum

    Titus Tarnum Member

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    Calvinism says the Book of Life only contains the names of saved persons and if that is true you have to admit a person can loose their salvation since Jesus warns that He will remove people's names from it if they don't overcome. This would mean the idea that your salvation is eternally secure is false.

    Arminianism says your name is written in the Book when you are saved and nobody's name was in it (like you believe?) before the foundation of the world but the Bible never says that someone's name is written in it at any other time than before the foundation of the world, so this is an unsupported assumption and in fact the opposite is true since Jesus says if you overcome He will not blot your name out the Book and He doesn't say if you overcome He will write your name in the Book as this assumption would require.

    It has to be a Book of the lineage of all those God would create, from Adam to you and to your offspring, the fact that sin entered the world wouldn't change your lineage. The Lambs Book of Life is a record of all of humanity.


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  10. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    You can't have a rebellion unless you were already under the power to begin with.

    It would make more sense to call them splinter cells or enemy commandos.
     
  11. ad finitum

    ad finitum Member

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    I don't accept this premise. It is wicked, IMHO. Why? Because the Bible lists among the Divine attributes, Love and Mercy. Because of that, God obligates Himself to find a way to save man while still satisfying His Righteousness and Justice. If God had done nothing, he would not have Love and Mercy and therefore not be God.

    So the idea that God would be within His rights to jettison His love and mercy is a wicked thought, in my opinion.
     
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  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The book of Life is those who are alive.
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    For the record, the election belongs to God on His conditions.
     
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  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Holiness and Judgement demands ALL must die and go to Hell, while Grace and Mercy provided for some relief!
     
  15. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    God on the other hand does not serve a fellah named holiness or judgement.

    Thats the biggest joke of all ---> We are told, Well God can do what is absolutely RIGHT....but instead he will do something a bit good and merciful.

    Who scribbles in as to what is RIGHT? apparently its not GOD. I thought he was the KING.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All of us deserve hell, correct?
     
  17. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Nope. God never said that. If he ever did you'd quote it.

    Being humble and remorseful the wretch that I am I can't lord over any judgement on other people.

    The sloppy sayings are based twisting a persons humility into a false humility.l

    My humility is between me and God, I have no grounds to impose MY judgement.

    Maybe between me and God I deserve WORST than Hell, who are you to LIGHTEN my sentence?
     
  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is The Saviour.
     
  19. ad finitum

    ad finitum Member

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    If all deserve hell, then it must be true that all deserve to drown, too. Correct?
     
  20. ad finitum

    ad finitum Member

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    ...to all who seek for it of their own free will. God denies no one who is searching for Him.
     
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