Featured Calvinism Fact Sheet #2, by Joel Barnes: Unconditional Election

What Im saying is within the context, so you ignoring context, and whats highlighted within it. Man naturally under sin does not seek after God, nor understand Him Rom 3:9-11

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

In the original its saying man doesnt seek the favor and worship of the True God. Thats because by nature we are idolaters !

 

Paul is quoting Psalm 14 which single's out those who say in their hearts that their is no God and who seek the destruction of "the righteous band". It is those who do nothing righteous, no not one. It is they who do not seek God because they claim He doesn't exist.

The Calvinist is accusing Paul of quoting the Bible out of context. That's not what Paul is doing. Those quotes are indexes to passages that Paul's audience already know about. Rather than quote entire chapters, the listener is enjoined to re-read the whole context of the quotes and think about them. Jesus did exactly the same thing in the Gospels.

You didn't stick with Paul's quote of Psalm 5, did you (see Romans 3:13)? What does that Psalm say? It talks about those who have rebelled against God. That would be Israelites. This makes Paul's point in Romans 3 that Jews also are under sin, not only gentiles.

Then in Romans 3:15-18, Paul quotes Isaiah 59:7-8 which talks about how Judah has been separated from God because of their sin, though God's arm is not short that he cannot deliver them. Once again, making the case that the Jews have no advantage over the gentile simply because God gave them the oracles of God. They too can fall under judgement.

The Calvinist doesn't believe in understanding context. It seems the Calvinist HATES context. The Calvinist takes a Talmudic approach to the Bible, finding support for their views with cut/paste sentences that are separated from their context in order to make the Bible say something that it's not saying.

Calvinist treatment of Romans 3 is proof that that is exactly what they are doing. I don't expect to persuade you, but others who read this may re-think what they have been told and look into Paul's quotes for themselves instead of covering their ears and saying, "La, la, la, la, la....".

 

Paul is quoting the original from Psalm 14, Psalm 5 and Isaiah 29, thereby importing the context of those passages into his letter to the Romans. It is clear, from the entire context, that Paul is not trying to say that no human ever seeks God. The context of Paul's quotations of the Old Testament proves this. To claim otherwise is to claim that God quotes Himself out of Context. That notion is blasphemy because there is one who does quote God's Word out of context and his name is Satan (see Satan's testing of Jesus in the desert).

Consider Paul's argument in Romans 3 without his quotes from the Old Testament. What is he arguing? God gave an advantage to the Jew with the oracles, yet some of them (Israel) did not trust (believe) them. How God deals with this reveals His righteousness and enhances His glory. But then how can God judge the unrighteous, who through their unnrighteousness, actually increase His glory? Paul then says, "Are we better (than Israel) in this regard?" Then he quotes the Old Testament which demonstrate that the unrighteous in Israel and outside of Israel are judged alike for the same reasons, their persecution of those who do believe and are deemed righteous, or they rebel against the heritage of God's faithfulness to deliver.

Now it all makes sense. Paul isn't proof-texting. He's not quoting out of context. He's providing his readers with an index to Old Testament passages that support his point.

This is how we understand Truth, comparing scripture with scripture (not comparing quotes out of context with other quotes out of context). When we do this everywhere, we rightly divide The Word of Truth.

 

I know where Paul is quoting from, that doesnt change anything friend. Man under sin doesnt seek after God, nor understand Him.

 

People try and explain away what the Holy Spirit had Paul write. Psalm 14 asks if any sought God. It asks in the form of God looking down and the answer was still NO.

 

Friend, read your Bible. It will change everything:

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us. Acts 17:26-27

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:19-20​

Not only is sinful man designed to seek God, sinful man already understands about God. If people will become Bible students then perhaps they will not fall into error.

 

Why do you quote out of context? Psalm 14 asks if any fool sought God. Psalm 14 says those who seek not God try to devour the righteous? Where did the righteous come from. I thought you said nobody seeks God. If they didn't seek Him, how are they called righteous?

A Bible student learns how to read (you know, everything) before drawing conclusions.

 

I read the scripture, how do you think I know that man by nature doesnt seek or understand God ? Its testified in scripture in the OT and NT Ps 14;Rom 3

 

ad finitum,

I didn't ,I just understand it.

 

Ignoring a rebuttal by simply repeating the original claim is the fallacy of argumentum ad nauseam, e.g. "But these go to eleven."

 

Again it's as plain as the nose on your face. Man under sin does not seek after God, the True God. He may seek after a God, but not the One True God Rom 3:11

 

It is interesting that one would try to claim that this short, compact psalm creates a particularly defined category of people in the first verse and then renders them utterly irrelevant for the rest of the psalm. According to your interpretation, the verse could have been dropped and your interpretation of the Psalm would not be altered. Isn't that right? Is that what you think? God wrote something that wasn't needed. God gave us something superfluous?

Let us return to reality. Why do we think Paul quotes from this Psalm? Isn't it because Paul's own letter to the Romans speaks of these same fools in chapter 1? And doesn't Paul then turn this upon believers in chapter 2 who are doing the same thing, exchanging the truth for a faulty theology? Believers who choose to believe nonsense by exchange! So what then? Will those believers caught doing the same thing as the fool not also fall under judgement? Paul is giving us the answer to that question in chapter 3.

 

Already rebutted. Maybe you could address the rebuttal in a way that avoids the common fallacy of argumentum ad nauseam.

You can learn more here: Argumentum ad nauseam - RationalWiki

"Repeating an opinion again and again seems to convince people that it is true — maybe because it simulates the effect of many people having that opinion."​

 

Your so called rebuttal is nothing but spam, what I have said remains unscathed.

 

You wasting time and space friend, it is what it is, Man by nature doesnt seek after God. Please quit spamming Gods Word to say absolutely nothing.

 

What has depravity have to do whether God has or has not set any condition on His election? 2 Peter 1:10, ". . . give diligence to make your calling and election sure: . . ." This cannot be done if there are no conditions to be met.

 

Acts 17:
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

BTW, Paul is saying this to unbelievers.

 

Salvation is by Grace and not by works/conditions.

 

That doesnt change anything, if men begin to seek the Lord, they are no longer under sin and they have a new nature, otherwise, men under sin by nature dont seek God. Rom 3:11

 

Look, please. This is important. Romans 3:11 is a quote from Psalm 14, which says:

Pslam 14

The scoundrel has said in his heart,
"There is no God."
They corrupt, they make loathsome their acts.
There is none who does good.
The LORD from the heavens looked down
on the sons of humankind
to see, is there someone discerning,
someone seeking out God.
​

The word for "scoundrel/fool" in verse one is "NABAL". There was a man by that name in First Samuel with whom David and his men had dealings. All the verses after verse one describe a category of men who are just like him. As you keep reading, do you not get the sense that David is thinking about this man while he is writing? I sure do...

All turn astray,
altogether befouled.
There is none who does good.
There is not even one.
Do they not know,
all wrongdoers?
Devourers of my people devoured them like bread.
They did not call the LORD.
There did they sorely fear,
for God is with the righteous band.
In your plot against the poor you are shamed,
for the LORD is his shelter.
Oh, may from Zion come Israel's rescue
when the LORD restores His people's condition.
May Jacob exult,
May Israel rejoice.​

David had to deal with men like Nabal numerous times in his life. It is clear that Psalm 14 is not talking about "all humans under sin". In fact, it seems to be talking about a particular kind of human, a Nabal kind of human. The description fits Nabal himself. But he is not the only nabal David encountered.