Pastor Larry said: He simply leaves them to do what they desire to do.
Pastor Larry, isn't that then Freewill?
Calvinism makes God Insincere of His Word
Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by icthus, Apr 7, 2005.
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I am really troubled by Christians who blame their sin on God! :( -
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Those of us who believe in free will realize and accept guilt for our freely chosen sinful ways!
Icthus... it's a 'mystery!' :rolleyes: -
A False Statement. Calvinists do not blame sin on God.
Calvinism teaches that man can freely do all the things HE or SHE wishes to do BUT because of humanity's bondage to SIN, HE or SHE cannot freely come to Christ and do what God commands, Nor does a lost person desire such a relationship with Christ because as Luther pointed out, our will is in bondage to Sin. This reguires a Divine intervention of God to bring a person to Christ (Eph. 2:1-9).
All humans are responsible for their own sin and rejection of Christ. We are a race of rebels that deserve eternal damnation and God could have rightly and justly condemned the entire human race. Thanks Be to God however for His grace that He bestows on us rebels He saves! -
Kiffen,
Does Calvinism teach that man is still under the penalty of sin?
How about any segment of mankind? -
Hi Tcassidy;
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike -
How many more times do we have to say it before you will stop telling such a vicious untruth? -
How many more times do we have to say it before you will stop telling such a vicious untruth? </font>[/QUOTE]Are those who are sinners Condemned for their sins? -
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Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dianetavegia:
Pastor Larry said: He simply leaves them to do what they desire to do.
Pastor Larry, isn't that then Freewill?Click to expand...
"Reformed theology following Augustine in affirming, on the basis of such passages as Rom. 8:5-8; Eph.2:1-10; John 6:44; 15:1-4, that mans will is not in fact free for obedience and faith till freedom from sin's dominion by regenerating grace" (James I Packer, in, Baker's Dictionary of Theology, p.230)
Basically, what Packer is saying here, is that man's will is not "free" until after he has been "regenerated" by the Holy Spirit. Up until that time, man's will is in "bondage", as Martin Luthur put it. Pure Calivinism says that it is not that "man does not believe", but rather, that "man cannot believe".
So, how do you then explain John 5:39-40, for example? -
Larry, and the rest of Calvinists on board
If man has not got a "Free Will" to make a decision for Jesus Christ, the how can God "command everyone, everywhere to repent"? (Acts 17:30). If this is not a possibility to "everyone everywhere" to do, then the command means nothing. -
Wow ... how strange ... what you said is exactly what I said ... The man is free to do whatever he wants ... As long as he is under the dominion of sin, he doesn't want to seek God. His "inability" is moral inability, because of his sin. How hard is that to understand? Are we speaking the same language here???
What is there to explain about John 5:39-40? They were unwilling to come to Christ so that they might have life. Remember, it is all about the will. They weren't willing. Why? Because they were in bondage to sin. They were free to do what they wanted. They didn't want to come. -
If man has not got a "Free Will" to make a decision for Jesus Christ, the how can God "command everyone, everywhere to repent"? (Acts 17:30). If this is not a possibility to "everyone everywhere" to do, then the command means nothing.Click to expand...
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Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
Wow ... how strange ... what you said is exactly what I said ... The man is free to do whatever he wants ... As long as he is under the dominion of sin, he doesn't want to seek God. His "inability" is moral inability, because of his sin. How hard is that to understand? Are we speaking the same language here???
What is there to explain about John 5:39-40? They were unwilling to come to Christ so that they might have life. Remember, it is all about the will. They weren't willing. Why? Because they were in bondage to sin. They were free to do what they wanted. They didn't want to come.Click to expand... -
Did you read what I said? And what Packer said? Man is free to do whatever he wants to do. That is the same kind of freedom God has. God cannot do anything at all. His freedom is limited by his nature. Yet we don't say that God is in bondage. IN the same way, man's freedom is limited by man's nature. He does exactly what he wants to do. Packer said the same thing ... that man is not free to obedience and faith. That doesn't mean he isn't free. That means it is not in his nature.
You need to understand what freedom is. It is the ability to act in accordance with one's nature. -
Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
Did you read what I said? And what Packer said? Man is free to do whatever he wants to do. That is the same kind of freedom God has. God cannot do anything at all. His freedom is limited by his nature. Yet we don't say that God is in bondage. IN the same way, man's freedom is limited by man's nature. He does exactly what he wants to do. Packer said the same thing ... that man is not free to obedience and faith. That doesn't mean he isn't free. That means it is not in his nature.
You need to understand what freedom is. It is the ability to act in accordance with one's nature.Click to expand...
How ca you say that someone is in bondage to something, and then say that he is free? Its like saying that someone who is locked up in jail, is still free? Does this make any sense to you? Its only that mans will is free to make a decision to either accept or reject Jesus as Saviour, that Christ would have said what He did in John 5:39-40. If we say that mans will is in "bondage", that is "bound up in" sin, how can he make any decision unless this is free first? Your understanding is nothing but contradictions.
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