Hello icthus.
We call the elect that is what we do, ISA 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. The gospel has to heard, that is the way God has set things up. Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. Romans 10:17.
That's the way it is. He didn't want to just click His fingers but works through cause and effect. He will not convert a man that has not heard His word. That's the way it is.
Depends on what you mean by repentance. In this case it would mean to turn from towards God. Whoever believes that Jesus died for their sins they are saved. Whoever does not believe is not saved. And that depends on elect or not elect.
But you can't say we have no faith man! :cool: We believe in Jesus Christ don't you know? :cool:
Those He elected to salvation He calls and justifies and glorifies and they have no say but say yes only because it is God that is Sovereign and one can only do what the Sovereign decrees should be done. What is it you say then, that it does not matter what we do because He saves children does He not? What's a fetus do then? But you must deny the original sin.
It is impossible to be unelected if you are elected of course. :cool: Deselected you mean? Does God repent of His choices?
john.
Calvinism needs to be Redefined
Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by icthus, Jun 7, 2005.
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John, so if it is not possible to become unelected, the the elect who have been elected before the foundation of the world, in eternity past, for the purpose of salvation in Jesus Christ, will so come to Jesus, and nothing can stop this since God has predetermined it. If this is the case, then I see no point in preaching the Gospel, as the elect will be saved anyway, since they are alreday elected. This is against what the Bible teaches, and has to be seen as heresy.
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I get the point! -
No Cassidy. My response it to the unbiblical doctrine that Calvinism teaches called "Predestination". This form of it is not found in Scripture.
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Hello icthus.
I wear it as a badge anathema but it has never been declared a heresy by any Church council has it? Never. Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism has been though hasn't it? Everytime it attacks. Go with your company I'll go with mine.
john. -
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Do I believe that 3000 came to believe in Jesus? Yes, I absolutely do! Were they all on "the elect" list? NO, I don't agree with that! They were ordinary men who heard the word of God given by, not only Peter but the rest of the Apostles as well, and they believed! If their belief grew into Faith in God, then they all received Salvation. If they believed that day, then fell away later, they did not receive God's salvation! -
You see no reason for preaching the gospel based on your false understanding of these matters. The Bible itself commands the gospel be preached, and is that not enough for you?
The Bible says preach. Have you not heard?
You are the one saying "no reason to preach" therefore, you brought heresy by saying you see no reason to preach he gospel. -
Salvation is of the Lord.
By grace,
Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio -
Bob K,
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Bob, you say:
"icthus,
You see no reason for preaching the gospel based on your false understanding of these matters. The Bible itself commands the gospel be preached, and is that not enough for you?
The Bible says preach. Have you not heard?
You are the one saying "no reason to preach" therefore, you brought heresy by saying you see no reason to preach he gospel. "
I most certainly see every reason for the Gospel to be preached, as there are very many souls that are in great need to be saved!
My argument is against the Calvinistic misunderstanding on "Predestination", where they falsly assume, that the "destiny" of some, namely "the elect", as already been determined. This was supposidly done in eternity past. If this is true, and only the elect will ever be saved, the it is pointless to preach the Gospel, since the elect will be saved anyway. This also follows from the argeument, that, if there are elect persons in some remote part of the world, where they never hear the Gospel, and then were to die, they will be saved. Or, will these "elect" not be saved, since they did not believe? If this is the case, the what was their "election" before the foundation of the world for? It is my contention. That, since Scripture plainly commands that we share the Gospel with everyone without exception. That this is exactly what God intenede, that everyone without exception, can be saved, because Christ had made provision in His Atonement for these. Not as the Calvinist says, that He only made provision for the elect. -
Calvinism redefined: twisted Scripture and faulty logic. An evil "god" who needs His little Calvinists to make excuses for Him just like all Calvinists do.
Example of an excuse: God is sovereign and man cannot thwart His plan...God predetermines all things...but He's not responsible for man's sin. Yeah...uh huh. -
KJ... it's o.k. I understand... No good theology schools in Canada..... it's called concurrence....Those aren't excuses either, it's called proper, orthodox theology. You want free will go ahead ... join the heretics... Long live Dort !
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Hello Sire.
Why King James King James? Is that really your name? My wife knew a Tressa Green at her school.
Some parents! :cool:
john -
LOL..you call me a heretic yet you follow a twisted distortion of God. One more close to the devil than Christ.
I don't appreciate your condescension nor your uninformed OPINION of theology schools in Canada. You can keep your theology schools and "Dort" and I will keep the Bible and the true Christ...thank you very much. Oh by the way...your "unloving" but typical Calvinist comment shows the lack of godly fruit resulting from Calvinism. But it's ok...I understand...you can't help it. God pre-ordained you to be that way.
Oh...and yes...they are excuses. -
LOL John...no that's not my name. I just think it sounds cool.
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Hello icthus.
He predestined us now should read He did not predestine us.
john. -
I'm not calling you a herertic, just all the chruch fathers. Men who knew the Bible alot better than you or I.
God gave us great teachers to learn from and to not forget our past. Righteousness does not live in a land of forgetfulness, so don't forget Dort. Or go back to the free will, man centered, Roman Catholic church who loves it's free-will, secular humanistic philosophy who's upsidedown theology started the reformation in the first place. Long live Dort! Long live the Solae ! -
So you expect me to trust the words of John Calvin, a murderer? not gonna happen. And the Catholic church called us all heretics, what's your point? I don't care what some past teacher has to call me, I care what Christ calls me. Now who's beliefs are founded on man? Huh?
You better get your history right if you think "free will" started the Reformation. You can keep Dort! I'll keep the Bible. It's amazing the caustic and harsh words you have to describe someone who just believes that Jesus loves them and wills that all would be saved. You make God an evil tyrant. and you do it of your own "free will". -
Boy are you confused. "Free Will" in the Catholic Church, "Yes".
You keep on saying God WILLS all would be saved. Do you mean God's Will, which He does perfectly, and completely is being thwarted? I think you are taking that verse out of context. ...Well, I know you are taking it out of context. And I'm not trusting in the words of Calvin either. If you knew anything about the subject, he didn't write that much on the subject anyhow.
What do you think Dort was? A bunch of guys looking at the teachings of Calvin and judging according to what he wrote on the matter? Try over 300 theologians for over 3 months slaving at the scriptures to search for truth. And truth tends to unify. Hence, they condemned the "free willers" to heresy and to stop them from preaching at the pulpits, because it was "historically" and "theologically" heretical.
You just trust your Bible huh? How bout where it says God gifted and gave teachers? And to through out the dividers (heretics, false teachers)? Oh yeah, you and your Bible are above them. Remember this verse also, "There's a way that SEEMS right onto a man, and the ends thereof are death".
Don't trust those guys huh? Are you reading the Apocrypha? Or the gospel of Thomas? Bartholomew? Or the other 2 thousand other letters that were rejected for canonization by the same MEN you claim you will not trust?
Funny how you won't trust them on a doctrine in the Bible, but you will trust them on WHAT IS the Bible! Ha !
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