Well Claudia;
You do believe John 3:16 don't you?
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 5
10: For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11: And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14: Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15: But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16: And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17: For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18: Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Calvinism -TULIP
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Claudia_T, Dec 20, 2006.
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Hi Bob,
Okay so God wants everyone to come to repentance, yes I believe that.
But I am not too sure what that has to do with the choice thing. Please try to be patient with me, Im stupid LOL
Claudia -
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okay WAIT a miute! What about Romans 7, verse 25?
14: For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15: For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16: If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17: Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18: For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19: For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20: Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21: I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22: For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24: O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25: I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
this is happening BEFORE he gets saved, right?
how can he be serving God with his mind? if there isnt any choice there and he has the depraved sinful nature?
then Romans 8 talks about the carnal mind, etc... cannot serve God.. -
Claudia;
Titus 2:
"11": For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
"12": Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
"13": Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
"14": Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
"15": These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
Job 32:
"8": But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding -
What are the ultimate implications of either viewpoint on this?
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Ch 8 gives us believers the hope and promise of victory over sin, both in the legal sense (we ARE delivered by Jesus Christ already) and the practical sense (we are BEING progressively saved through the sanctificaiton of the Spirit from the practice of sin). But as long as the flesh lives, we shall not be totally free from sin. -
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Also, Rom 8 give us a contrast between the lost and the saved. The lost have no hope of victory over sin. Believers can expect God's working in their lives. an absence of God's working may be a cause for self-examination, whether we are in the faith.
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JD,
NO I dont mind at all if you weigh in :)
Okay so the Apostle Paul is saved at that time in Romans 7 and he is saying that with his mind he serves God but he just hasnt figured out yet how to overcome sin. At least I think thats what you are saying.
At that point in Romans 7 he has already been saved and the Holy Spirit is working on his mind and he has already chosen Christ.
well that makes sense to me
Claudia -
JD
I thought that Calvinists didnt believe we could ever fall out of the faith though? -
Sanctification may require response on our part, but only the regenerated, converted believer can respond to the voice of God, for, "it is God that works in you both to do and to will of His good pleasure". So all the phases of salvation are the work of God, and only he gets the glory. -
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Joseph Botwinick -
Joseph Botwinick -
You can try as hard as you like but unbelief will send you to hell. -
Did God "effectively make Adam sinless and in harmony with his Maker"??
Did God "effectively make Lucifer sinless and in harmony with his Maker"??
The Calvinist uses this "not effective" argument to say "no - because they eventually chose something that was not good".
How transparent that Calvinist argument is -- is left as an exercise for the reader!:sleep:
in Christ,
Bob -
Nice list brother Bob.
In Christ,
Bob -
Here we go again............
Someone send me an E-Mail or PM to let me know who won.
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U - Uncondition Election (read arbitrary selection of the FEW in Matt 7 by God, who cares not for the MANY
I dont understand about Matthew 7, and which verses you are talking about.
I guess it means that God elects to be saved whosoever He will and it has nothing to do with how we act...???
"who cares not for the many" does that mean God just lets everyone else be burned in hell and it doesnt matter what they do or dont do?
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