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Featured Calvinists & Arminian Together

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by evangelist6589, Aug 21, 2014.

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  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    In my opinion, from what I understand and read from the scriptures, it is this preacher who is most likely un-regenerated.
     
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I believe Christ died to redeem those the Father has given (the elect). I also believe he is the propitiation for the sins of mankind.
     
  3. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    So I am on the way to hell because I believe another gospel???? You have just judged the salvation of all Calvinists!!
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I noted that you did not say all mankind. So we can rest comfortably in John 6:38-39

    38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

    39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


    Then we can safely say that Christ's work on the cross was NOT a hypothetical salvation for hypothetical believers---it was a real & definite salvation for God's own chosen people. I rest my case!
     
    #104 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2014
  5. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I will add something else to this... There were two thieves on the cross... One he told this day shalt thou be with me in paradise... Why didn't he say anything to the other thief? He wasn't given to Christ by the Father!
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Either way we can rest comfortably in John 6:38-39. But if you are wondering (as I doubt you are), I do not believe that because Jesus died on the cross that apart from faith on our part there is redemption (I don't believe that faith is a result of salvation, but that God draws men to faith first). I do think that the subject of 1 John 2:2 is Jesus and not man or sin. So I do view it as indicating the "whole world"...or "all men." Ironically, here I depart with many Calvinists...but I have company with Calvin if that counts for anything :smilewinkgrin:
     
  7. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Brother, I am not quite sure of this attestation. Calvin wrote:

    "I should like to know how the wicked can eat the flesh of Christ which was not crucified for them, and how they can drink the blood which was not shed to expiate their sins?"

    "For our present question is, not what the power or virtue of Christ is, nor what efficacy it has in itself, but who those are to whom he gives Himself to be enjoyed. Now if the possession of Christ stands in faith, and if faith flows from the Spirit of adoption, it follows that he alone is numbered of God among His children who is designed of God to be a partaker of Christ. Indeed the evangelist John sets forth the office of Christ to be none other than that of ‘gathering together all the children of God’ in one by His death. From all which we conclude that, although reconciliation is offered unto all men through him, yet, that the great benefit belongs peculiarly to the elect, that they might be ‘gathered together’ and be made ‘together’ partakers of eternal life."
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Nope.....I am not a Calvinist. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Hmmmm, interesting ..... I like that. thanks :thumbs:
     
  10. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Blood of Christ

    The blood and flesh of Christ is not for the wicked, but for those who are born again by His word.

    The blood and flesh of Christ does no good for those who are not being changed by it. I don't believe Calvin was saying what he said for the reason you wanted him to.

    1 Corinthians 11:
    23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

    27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.
     
    #110 psalms109:31, Aug 24, 2014
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  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Perhaps I misunderstood EW&F. But the second quote pretty much sums up what I was trying (however inadequately) to say. "[A]lthough reconciliation is offered unto all men through him, yet that the great benefit belongs peculiarly to the elect, that they might be ‘gathered together’ and made ‘together’ partakers of eternal life.”

    I did not understand EW&F to be saying that reconciliation was being offered to all men.
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    If Christ made propitiation for sin by his death then we have 2 different synarios right?

    1) its for all the sins of all the people of the world. As a result, all will be saved.

    2) propition for the sins of His elect, who alone are saved.

    Draw your own conclusions.
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    What is a "synarios"?

    This is called the false dilema fallacy.
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Regarding reconciliation.....I don't understand how someone being reconciled to God goes on fighting God? I perfer to believe that Christs death on the cross brought God & those God has given Christ together.
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    :laugh:
    Not to me...
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Read the verse again, the subject is Christ (the propitiation). But yes, although you choose a poor verse as support, it is the sins of the elect that are covered
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    :laugh: you are calling John 6:38-39 a what?:laugh:

    OK...done here.
     
    #117 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2014
  18. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    And the sins of the elect alone were covered.

    Since Christ became the propitiation for the sins of His people scattered throughout the world, that means God's wrath is no longer upon them. Christ made satisfaction for His people on the cross of Calvary. They are reconciled with Him. They have peace with God. Can that be said of every single individual since Creation --past, present and future? Is every single person free of God's condemnation? Is Christ the Advocate for every person --head-for-head -- or for His elect ones alone? Because only the elect --(His sheep --His Church) can be said to joined with Him to enjoy these and other privileges.
     
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I agree with all of that. Having said that it in no way negates that Jesus died for the world.
     
  20. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    How in the world can you possibly agree with all of that yet not clearly see from my explanation that the non-elect will always be under God's condemnation. They will not have Jesus as their Advocate. They will never be reconciled with God --no peace with Him since their sins have not been satisfied. All the benefits of the propitiation are enjoyed by the elect alone.
     
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