RC;
It's intresting that in the Greek a slave can either be a voluntary slave or servant or an involuntary one.
G1401
δοῦλος
doulos
doo'-los
From G1210; a slave (literally or figuratively, involuntarily or voluntarily; frequently therefore in a qualified sense of subjection or subserviency): - bond (-man), servant.
Not all slaves are servants and not all servants are slaves.
May Christ shine His Light On Us All;
Mike
Calvinists, help me out here...
Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Skandelon, Dec 29, 2004.
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rc, if the natural man "loves to be a slave...." isn't love a matter of attitude? I can demonstrate to you that love is not a commodity that can be transferred from one to another, so it must be something that is "possessed by" the one about somthing or someone else.
Jesus clearly explains that we are bound to sin because we do not "know" there is a better way, and do not have the knowledge of how to control ourselves. Scriptures tell us that God says, "For lack of knowledge, MY people perish" now that could mean that the jews are ignorant of knowledge, as the Jews are God's chosen race. Or it could mean that Mankind does not have the knowledge by which to control itself, resulting in its headlong rush into destruction. Either way, our destruction comes because we do not have sufficient knowledge of God, and it is KNOWLEDGE of God that causes us to HAVE FAITH IN GOD. Jesus was freely giving that knowledge to the Jews, who were so "well trained" in religion that they could not "hear" the words of Jesus who is the author of life itself. "He came unto his own, and his own received him not". -
They did not BELIEVE because they WERE NOT HIS SHEEP!
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So, who do you say are Jesus's Sheep?
Who were Jesus's Sheep in that day? -
The first fold of sheep were the remnant Jesus chose from Israel who were not judicially hardened in their rebellion, but instead were called to take the message of redemption to the world
The second fold of sheep were those who believed through the first fold's message. (primarily the Gentiles) -
That process continues today while God is in His state of Grace toward mankind, especially the Jews. Everyone who believes in Jesus, the Son of God, as the result of the teachings of the Apostles becomes a sheep in the Fold of the Good Shepherd, Jesus. See John 17.
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Wes.
`The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' The guilt will not be atoned! Guilt is personal is it not?
Since Jesus atoned for all sin as you say then why have Eli's house still got guilt?
johnp. -
I'm not sure if that answer from me above is in the right thread?
Have you edited out the question or have I made an error?
johnp. -
Atonement is payment for, not forgiveness of sin!
1 John 19,10, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and Just to forgive us our sins and to cleans us from all unrighteousness". Now for what reason would the Apostle John say this if Atonement is forgiveness of Sin?
Yes, we remain guilty of sin, but we do not have to pay the penalty of sin because Jesus did that for us!
Eli's House rejected God! That is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, the Unforgiveable sin. God does not save those who reject HIM!
You do not go out our your way to do something for those who reject you! Why do you insist that God must do so? -
Johnp said,
Seems to me that Paul is talking about life that God the Son enabled by removing the penalty of sin. Paul is simply acknowledging what we all must acknowledge. Faith is a personally and individually unique thing that one sees from within one's self. When one sees faith in the way that Paul is expressing it one personalizes the one who brought us to it. "Jesus died for me" is acknowledging that I could not have everlasting life if He had not removed the penalty of sin!
Now, care to name one person by name that atonement alone saved? -
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Wes.
Any body else like to join in?
johnp. -
His blood payed for my sin. Read Hebrews... He didn't die for those who die in unbelief. Christ died for HIS sheep... He died for His church... God would be unjust to sentence someone to a punishment that was already paid for.
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Any body else like to join in?
johnp. </font>[/QUOTE]I truly hope that you are not relying on atonement to save you. If you are your belief is NOT FOUNDED in Scripture. -
"His blood paid for ALL the sins of the World!" Not just for yours. However, it is good that you perceive it that way, because you have personalized your faith in Jesus.
rc, your statement "God would be unjust to sentence someone to a punishment that was already paid for." speaks volumes of truth. And that is the reason God sent his only Son, manifest in the flesh, to us to be the Sacrificial Lamb that taketh away the sins of the world.
God, in so doing, has changed our sins from a death penalty into "deeds" that we do that will be judged according to their merit. Our deeds of sin will be tested as if by fire, and the result of those sins is worthless ashes. The good that we do will come through the test by fire in the manner that gold, silver, and precious stones come through fire. Gold and silver are purified by fire and Precious stones are not effected by fire.
But we ourselves will not be so tested, but believers will pass from natural death into everlasting life, and unbelievers whose names are not found in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire. The book of life entries are based on faith alone. -
Wes.
But thank you for the warning. The warning is wasted on me because my everlasting security is made secure by Jesus. I am saved by grace. He told me personally and continues to be with me. I know Him and He knows me. I hear His voice and speak His words.
2 Peter 2:9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
What's the punishment for Wes if Jesus paid the price for those? What's the judgement for Wes is Jesus paid the price?
MT 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Do you know Him Wes? I don't mean do you know about Him but do you know Him? Have you met with Him? Does He know you? Not does He know about you but does He know you?
johnp. -
As for 2 Peter 2:9, you'd better take in the whole context!
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What will the unbelievers penalty be Wes? What sin will they "PAY" for? ... If Jesus payed for it already, they are clean.... The judge can't find anybody guilty if the penalty has been paid for already ! Jesus said He died for the MANY... not all... thanks for bringing up Hebrews... Jesus will perfectly save and will do perfectly what He intended... to save. NOT to make people SAVABLE...
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RC,
Unbelievers do not pay for sins any more than believers pay for sins. Because Jesus' atonement for sin Paid for ALL sin, in ALL times, ONCE for ALL! NO MAN DIES FOR SINNING!
Salvation, which only comes to believers, is a free gift of God to those who have faith in Him, but especially faith in His Son, the Atoner of sin! Those who have faith in God do in truth work very hard to not sin because by our sinning we dishonor the one who died to atone for our sin. But "if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness", 1 John 1:9,10.
Let me refer you to Revelation 20, especially 14 and 15. Whoever's name is not found in the book of Life is cast into the lake of fire. Not for sins, but for lack of faith. Unbelievers lack faith, and it is that condition alone that causes them to be cast into the lake of fire! -
Hmmm... "For the wages of "lack of faith" is death, but the gift of God is eternal life" ... what version is that? ...
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