Featured Can we conclude that Calvinism is a relatively NEW doctrine?

'Old Southern Baptists':

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1544854#post1544854

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

I don't quote scripture to try to make a point with scandalous, only God can open his eyes. There may be lurkers who regard scripture as we do that it might be helpful to. Unlike the ECF and now the inspired AW Tozer, it never returns to Him void.

 

Wow, you win the most prideful, arrogant and rude post award! Congrats! You do realize Skan's a former calvinist. His eyes have already been opened.

 

John Dagg, the first Old Southern Baptist to write a book on theology writes the following about the unregenerate man contrasted with the regenerate man.

Dagg [page 322 og his Manual of Theology] comments on the natural man’s inability regarding salvation, as follows:

“Every proposed method of salvation that leaves the issue dependent on human volition is defective. It has always been found that men will not come to Christ for life. The Gospel is preached to every creature; but all, with one consent, ask to be excused. The will of man must be changed; and this change the will cannot itself effect. Divine grace must here interpose. Unless God works in the sinner to will and to do, salvation is impossible.”

Again John Dagg [page 277] notes:

“In our natural state we are totally depraved. No inclination to holiness exists in the carnal heart; and no holy act can be performed, or service to God rendered, until the heart is changed. This change, it is the office of the Holy Spirit to effect.”

Speaking of the regenerate man Dagg notes [Manual of Theology, pages 277ff]:

“So great is the change produced, that the subject of it is called a new creature as if proceeding, like Adam, directly from the creating hand of God; and he is said to be renewed, as being restored to the image of God, in which man was originally formed”

2 Corinthians 5:17, KJV
17. Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Dagg further notes:

“The change is moral. The body is unchanged; and the identity of the mind is not destroyed. The individual is conscious of being the same person that he was before; but a new direction is given to the active powers of the mind, and new affections are brought into exercise. The love of God is shed abroad in the heart by the Holy Ghost. No love to God had previously existed there; for the carnal heart is enmity against God. Love is the fulfilling of the law, the principle of all holy obedience; and when love is produced in the heart, the law of God is written there. As a new principle of action, inciting to a new mode of life, it renders the man a new creature. The production of love in the heart by the Holy Spirit, is the regeneration, or the new birth; for he that loveth, is born of God.”

“The mode in which the Holy Spirit effects this change, is beyond our understanding. All God's ways are unsearchable; and we might as well attempt to explain how he created the world, as how he new-creates the soul. With reference to this subject, the Saviour said, The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.[John 3:8, KJV] We know, from the Holy Scriptures, that God employs his truth in the regeneration of the soul. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.[James 1:18, KJV] Love to God necessarily implies knowledge of God, and this knowledge it is the province of truth to impart. But knowledge is not always connected with love. The devils know, but do not love; and wicked men delight not to retain the knowledge of God, because their knowledge of him is not connected with love. The mere presentation of the truth to the mind, is not all that is needed, in producing love to God in the heart.”

 

:thumbs:

 

All right, let's give this a try:

Bill C: "Calvinism must exist before the ECF."
Bob A: "How do you know?"
Bill C: "Because it’s in the Bible."
Bob A: "Why should I believe Calvinism is in the Bible?"
Bill C: "Because the Bible was written by God." ​

Hmm , not always as easy as it sounds...​

​

Try another:

Bill C: “God determined all things that ever happen, He is Sovereign."
Bob A: "Did God determine the things Jeffrey Dahmer did?"
Bill C: "No, Jeffrey Dahmer did what he did because of his nature."
Bob A: "Who determined Jeffrey Dahmer’s nature?"
Bill C: "God did, He determines all things, He is Sovereign."

Okay :laugh: ...yep, this is starting to get somewhat entertaining when you think about it. :laugh: