Can you be saved and not know it?

[Salamander]

You use Scriptures to pervert the thinking as well as the context.

When you cannot provide comprehensible evidence for what you believ you must attack me as some sort of means to denigrate my character.

I haven't called anyone a liar and that is the only time I have used the word exfcept where I quoted you.

Since the Spirit beareth witness with my spirit that my hope that is seen by the evidence of faith and guarenteed by the substance of same faith, I have absolute CONFIDENCE in the FACT I KNOW I am SAVED!

You need to try and explain "hope that is not seen" vs hope that is seen. i do so by using the correct comprehension of the Greek as that "hope" is CONFIDENCE.

I am NOT the "only" one who KNOWS what HOPE The Lord is referring to through the pen of the Apostle Paul.

Only a devil would continue to their attempt to say other wise.

"Get THEE behind me satan!" I remember my LORD saying one day, or do you just think Jesus told satan that?

 

[amity]

No. This passage tells me that the rich young ruler went away "very sorrowful" and unsaved. He went to Hell because he put wealth ahead of devotion to Christ.

See Mark 10.

According to you the moral of the passage is that we will all go to hell, because few of us have given up all our worldly possessions to follow Christ.

I see the Bible as teaching (Matthew and Mark) that the apostles being amazed, wondered how anyone could possibly go to heaven, if they must give up ALL they possessed. Christs answer is "With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Grace covers our shortcomings and so we are saved.

 

[Salamander]

1Cr 8:2And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

Seems there is something the Lord wants you to know, at least you OUGHT to KNOW.:laugh:

 

[Salamander]

See Mark 10.

According to you the moral of the passage is that we will all go to hell, because few of us have given up all our worldly possessions to follow Christ.

I see the Bible as teaching (Matthew and Mark) that the apostles being amazed, wondered how anyone could possibly go to heaven, if they must give up ALL they possessed. Christs answer is "With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Grace covers our shortcomings and so we are saved.

The key to the text is the man went away very sorrowful and never followed Jesus.

The understanding is that the rich young ruler's "god" was his riches which also carried him to hell.

Scholars believe this same man is the one Jesus also refers to in Luke 16 and the rich man lifted up his eyes in hell, being in torments.

No where have i ever heard that he went to heaven in spite of his unwillingness to give up his riches. Quite Contrariwise.

 

[amity]

The key to the text is the man went away very sorrowful and never followed Jesus.

The understanding is that the rich young ruler's "god" was his riches which also carried him to hell.

Scholars believe this same man is the one Jesus also refers to in Luke 16 and the rich man lifted up his eyes in hell, being in torments.

No where have i ever heard that he went to heaven in spite of his unwillingness to give up his riches. Quite Contrariwise.

I have ALWAYS heard that.

1) How do you know that he never followed Jesus?
2) How do you know that he went to hell?
3) What is possible with God, if not that this young man should be saved? What point is being made by Christ's statement? Is salvation something WE do or is it something that GOD does? Is anyone saved by works? Giving up riches, or any other work?

The explicit point of the story is that no works will save us, no matter how meritorious.

 

[Brother Bob]

Only a devil would continue to their attempt to say other wise.

"Get THEE behind me satan!" I remember my LORD saying one day, or do you just think Jesus told satan that?

You do err calling other members on here the "devil". Me thinks you lack something. I will pray that God will give you understanding. 1Cr 8:2And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

You completely "void" faith. Everything either stands or falls on "belief".

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

See Mark 10.

According to you the moral of the passage is that we will all go to hell, because few of us have given up all our worldly possessions to follow Christ.

I see the Bible as teaching (Matthew and Mark) that the apostles being amazed, wondered how anyone could possibly go to heaven, if they must give up ALL they possessed. Christs answer is "With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Grace covers our shortcomings and so we are saved.

As I said earlier, the requirement to give up his wealth was specific to the rich yound ruler. In general, we must make Christ the Lord of our lives. No man can serve two masters. If you choose to worship something else other than the Lord you are not saved.

 

[amity]

As I said earlier, the requirement to give up his wealth was specific to the rich yound ruler. In general, we must make Christ the Lord of our lives. No man can serve two masters. If you choose to worship something else other than the Lord you are not saved.

Is there any example of this in scripture?

I don't believe Christ puts special conditions on specific people for salvation.

 

[Brother Bob]

You need to try and explain "hope that is not seen" vs hope that is seen. i do so by using the correct comprehension of the Greek as that "hope" is CONFIDENCE.

Without a belief in "Hope", then you can't be saved, so therefore it all comes down to faith. I hope you have a "Hope", and faith in that Hope.


Without a belief in it -- a hearty and joyful belief -- we cannot be saved.

"Without faith (which is the substance of things hoped for -- see verse 1) it is impossible to please God" (Heb. 11:6). "He that believeth not shall be condemned" (Mark 16:16). "He that hath this hope purifieth himself" (1 John 3:3). We must "hold fast the confidence and rejoicing of the hope" (Heb. 3:6). "We are saved by hope" (Rom. 8:24).

No better security can be found for future good than the assurances God has given in His Word. It is reasonable that men should believe His promises, sincerely, enthusiastically, joyfully, to be well-pleasing to Him. We may share in glorious benefits to be brought by Jesus Christ at his return -- but not if we are ignorant of them. Follow not the crowd in its indifference, but make yourselves acquainted with the Bible's message. Other hopes are without foundation, but the hope of the Bible will be certainly realized by those who in faith and patience look for it.

​

We have knowledge through our faith.

 

[Salamander]

I have ALWAYS heard that.

1) How do you know that he never followed Jesus?
2) How do you know that he went to hell?
3) What is possible with God, if not that this young man should be saved? What point is being made by Christ's statement? Is salvation something WE do or is it something that GOD does? Is anyone saved by works? Giving up riches, or any other work?

The explicit point of the story is that no works will save us, no matter how meritorious.

Um, No, the explicit point of the story is that we aren't following Jesus when we let something like riches get between us and God.

1. Jesus never mentions him again and the dead give away is that he left Him and went away sorrowful: that sounds nothing like following Jesus is really like. I believe joy unspeakable and full of glory is walking with the Lord. I fail to see this anywhere by the Lord's reference to the rich young ruler. Maybe you see something no one else can?

2. Simple: anyone not willing to give up all that he has and follow after jesus goes to hell.

Notice I didn't say, neither did Jesus, that anyone has to give everything away to follow Him, but just be willing to, as to not let that thing get between them and God.

3.It's all in all, just as Christ is my all in all. Just as Christ is in all who follow Him.

All things acording to God's Divine will are possible, not that all things, no matter the pre-requisite is possible.

The pre-requisite is salvation to make all things possible with God.

 

[Salamander]

You do err calling other members on here the "devil". Me thinks you lack something. I will pray that God will give you understanding. 1Cr 8:2And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

You completely "void" faith. Everything either stands or falls on "belief".

Never called anyone anything, especially "devil".

I believe you lack the understanding of Romans 8:24 specifically.

Try defining the Greek word elpis:


elpis {el-pece'}
TDNT ReferenceRoot WordTDNT - 2:517,229from a primary elpo (to anticipate, usually with pleasure)Part of Speechn fOutline of Biblical Usage
1) expectation of evil, fear
2) expectation of good, hope
a) in the Christian sense
1) joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation
3) on hope, in hope, having hope a) the author of hope, or he who is its foundation b) the thing hoped for




http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?strongs=1680

The context of Romans 8 is the SECURITY of the believer.

The hope spoken of, in regards to continuing on with our walk with the Lord, is that no matter what trials we face or the discouragements that we may encounter, we have the confidience the lord will bring them all to pass. That is just one side of it.

The other side of the hope, the one that maketh not ashamed, is that no matter what befalls the Christian; this life is just a passing moment and we are guaranteed a home in heaven/ the eternal hope of glory.

Now I don't know what your understanding of the verse might really be, but if it's anything different than what i just gave you, it's not doctrinally correct.

I have hope beyond normal, earthly, or carnal hope.

 

[Salamander]

Without a belief in "Hope", then you can't be saved, so therefore it all comes down to faith. I hope you have a "Hope", and faith in that Hope.


Without a belief in it -- a hearty and joyful belief -- we cannot be saved.

"Without faith (which is the substance of things hoped for -- see verse 1) it is impossible to please God" (Heb. 11:6). "He that believeth not shall be condemned" (Mark 16:16). "He that hath this hope purifieth himself" (1 John 3:3). We must "hold fast the confidence and rejoicing of the hope" (Heb. 3:6). "We are saved by hope" (Rom. 8:24).

No better security can be found for future good than the assurances God has given in His Word. It is reasonable that men should believe His promises, sincerely, enthusiastically, joyfully, to be well-pleasing to Him. We may share in glorious benefits to be brought by Jesus Christ at his return -- but not if we are ignorant of them. Follow not the crowd in its indifference, but make yourselves acquainted with the Bible's message. Other hopes are without foundation, but the hope of the Bible will be certainly realized by those who in faith and patience look for it.

​

We have knowledge through our faith.

You really shouldn't give some one else's words without providing the source, that's plagerism.

If I wasn't CONFIDENT of what I believe by the Lord proving Himself faithful, then I would have a blind faith; I do not have a blind faith.

Confidence comes with learning and that learning by experience.

I've experience salvation because of faith in Jesus Christ. I received that salvation by grace. I have become CONFIDENT of my eternal hope in glory becuase i've seen the evidences and substances of that faith in action!

Only a devil would think otherwise, or just simply the ignorant of God's Word.:godisgood:

 

[reformedbeliever]

I do believe Bro. Bob is having a procedure on his heart today. lets not forget to pray for him.

 

[Salamander]

Sure! I wasn't aware of this until now. Thank You.

 

[amity]

elpis {el-pece'}
TDNT ReferenceRoot WordTDNT - 2:517,229from a primary elpo (to anticipate, usually with pleasure)Part of Speechn fOutline of Biblical Usage
1) expectation of evil, fear
2) expectation of good, hope
a) in the Christian sense
1) joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation
3) on hope, in hope, having hope a) the author of hope, or he who is its foundation b) the thing hoped for




http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?strongs=1680

The context of Romans 8 is the SECURITY of the believer.

The hope spoken of, in regards to continuing on with our walk with the Lord, is that no matter what trials we face or the discouragements that we may encounter, we have the confidience the lord will bring them all to pass. That is just one side of it.

The other side of the hope, the one that maketh not ashamed, is that no matter what befalls the Christian; this life is just a passing moment and we are guaranteed a home in heaven/ the eternal hope of glory.

Now I don't know what your understanding of the verse might really be, but if it's anything different than what i just gave you, it's not doctrinally correct.

I have hope beyond normal, earthly, or carnal hope.

Expectation, confidence, etc., are not the same thing as certainty. They do not amount to being 100% SURE in a personal sense. Just because I believe the Bible and know that will all come to pass does not mean that I myself am covered by those promises.

 

[Salamander]

Then, friend, you would make God a liar.

 

[Salamander]

I am as sure as the change the Lord made in me that I am saved.

I'm not judging your salvation, but you speak as a lost person would speak.

I preach to make all who listen to be aware of any false professions.

If II Cor. 5:17 isn't what you know to be your case, then I must direct you to an altar to find forgiveness of sins, salvation for the soul, and CONFIDENCE that you are SAVED!

Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Even if we don't believe, God is still faithful.

Either the Word of God is certain, and it is, or you speak as an agnostic and are not a Baptist.

 

[bapmom]

Expectation, confidence, etc., are not the same thing as certainty. They do not amount to being 100% SURE in a personal sense. Just because I believe the Bible and know that will all come to pass does not mean that I myself am covered by those promises.

amity,

umm, expectation and confidence are indeed the same as certainty. When you expect something to happen it is because you are certain that it WILL happen. If you have confidence that something will happen it is because you are CERTAIN that it will happen.

 

[amity]

One of my favorite books is Pilgrim's Progress. It is full of people who thought they were on the road to salvation! I am not questioning anyone else's salvation, but total certainty does not seem desirable to me. I am quite happy and blessed of the Lord just by believing in Him. How "me-centered" should my faith be? Best to keep it at a level of trust in Him and not fret over whether or not I myself am going to heaven or not. My job is to run the race with patience. HIS job is to save.

Honestly, there is some degree of difference in scriptural interpretation involved in this. But I also find the quest for perfect certainty to be rather a selfish focus. I actually even had a private message from someone about this, and as I told him, if I go to hell I will be the happiest person there, just knowing what the Lord did for so many.

P.S. Let's remember to pray for Brother Bob, who has gone through another cardiac procedure today.

 

[pinoybaptist]

HIS job is to save.

And it's a job we know we can count on as done !! And done well !!

Like the song says:

.....and I know whate'er befalls me, Jesus doeth all things well.....