Can you be saved and not know it?

[DHK]

DHK, are you still saying a Christian can commit any sin under the sun?

I guess that dude that just received the death penalty for the murder of Jessica Lunsford is possibly a born again Christian who is just out of fellowship with God. Unbelieveable.

I don't judge the hearts of others. I don't know Jessica, nor the one who killed her.
But I do know God, and I do know what he has revealed in his word.
Every person (saved or not) is capable of any sin. Why do you think that you would be above certain sins? That is called the sin of self-righteousness. It is like saying: "I am soooo good I could never commit that sin! hmmmph!!!!"
Take heed lest ye fall!
David fell. A man after God's own heart committed adultery, and tried to cover it up by committing murder.
Take heed lest ye fall.
A Christian is capable of committing any sin. Christ died for them all.

 

[Amy.G]

I don't judge the hearts of others. I don't know Jessica, nor the one who killed her.
But I do know God, and I do know what he has revealed in his word.
Every person (saved or not) is capable of any sin. Why do you think that you would be above certain sins? That is called the sin of self-righteousness. It is like saying: "I am soooo good I could never commit that sin! hmmmph!!!!"
Take heed lest ye fall!
David fell. A man after God's own heart committed adultery, and tried to cover it up by committing murder.
Take heed lest ye fall.
A Christian is capable of committing any sin. Christ died for them all.

I forgot you're Canadian. You probably aren't aware of the Jessica Lunsford case. The man raped, tortured and buried her alive. She was a child.

I do not believe that I am too good to commit sin. I believe God is powerful and loving and watches over His children and won't let them go that far into sin. I believe a person who has the Spirit of God literally in them, cannot sin against God in that way. That is not the actions of a person 'out of fellowship'. That is pure evil. That is a person who never knew God.

 

[DHK]

I do not believe that I am too good to commit sin.

Perhaps not. But you believe you are too good to commit some sins, as you admit. That is still the sin of self-righteousness.

I believe God is powerful and loving and watches over His children and won't let them go that far into sin.

If that is your belief, then back it up with the Bible. Where does it say that in the Bible? Where does it say that God will keep you from sin, and if certain sins, which sins? Do you have a list? Where is the list? Who decides which sins are on the list?

I believe a person who has the Spirit of God literally in them, cannot sin against God in that way.

In what way? Lying? Greed? Gluttony? Covetousness? Idolatry?
What sins?
God doesn't differentiate between all those sins. They are all an abomination in his sight. They are all a transgression of the law. Sin is sin. Any sin is serious enough to send a person to hell. The most serious sin of all is rejection of Jesus Christ. That is far more serious than rape, murder, homosexualatiy and pedophelia combined.

That is not the actions of a person 'out of fellowship'. That is pure evil. That is a person who never knew God.

Just like David? Like just and righteous Lot?
You act like the one who said "I will be like the most high God." In other words, you presume to know the hearts of men just like God. How do you do that? Only God knows the hearts of men. Satan wanted to do that but couldn't. Now you are attaining to do the same thing. Judging the hearts of men to the extent of who gets to enter into heaven and who is denied belongs to God and God alone.

 

[Amy.G]

DHK:

You act like the one who said "I will be like the most high God." In other words, you presume to know the hearts of men just like God. How do you do that? Only God knows the hearts of men. Satan wanted to do that but couldn't. Now you are attaining to do the same thing. Judging the hearts of men to the extent of who gets to enter into heaven and who is denied belongs to God and God alone.

You are accusing me of acting like Satan, of attaining to do what Satan did. Who is doing the judging? It is you.

You statements are very offensive. Just because we disagree it doesn't give you the right to accuse me of following Satan. You have gone too far.

I am not self righteous. I believe in the power of God.

I may be proven wrong about this subject, but it won't be by you. I have lost respect for you.

I disagree with you and I'll just leave it at that.

 

[DHK]

Sorry for the offence Amy.
I am simply stating that no one knows the heart of man, but God.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Explain Ed; how can it be the flip-side of faith. You mean its non-faith?
Of course I don't mean that, and you know that very well. Especially if you've actually read the posts.

[FONT=tahoma,arial]-&[/FONT] {annoyed}

Ed

Flip-side means the other side I think.

{annoyed} not you Ed; you tough.

 

[Brother Bob]

Strange theology if that is what you call it.

A man rapes and buries a little girl alive in a garbage bag, where the little girl dug her fingers through the garbage bag fighting to save her life, and you say you don't know the heart of the man. I know his heart, and it is as evil as one can get. It is the pure devil.

 

[DHK]

Strange theology if that is what you call it.

A man rapes and buries a little girl alive in a garbage bag, where the little girl dug her fingers through the garbage bag fighting to save her life, and you say you don't know the heart of the man. I know his heart, and it is as evil as one can get. It is the pure devil.

I believe what the Bible says regardless of what you say. The opinions of man are of no consequent to me. The thief on the cross never did a good work in his life.
By your writings it is apparent that you do not believe the Bible when it says:

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

[pinoybaptist]

I forgot you're Canadian. You probably aren't aware of the Jessica Lunsford case. The man raped, tortured and buried her alive. She was a child.

I do not believe that I am too good to commit sin. I believe God is powerful and loving and watches over His children and won't let them go that far into sin. I believe a person who has the Spirit of God literally in them, cannot sin against God in that way. That is not the actions of a person 'out of fellowship'. That is pure evil. That is a person who never knew God.

Everybody is capable of doing evil, Amy. Even those who already know God. Until we are out of this body of corruption, free of this corrupt mind, and away from the presence of sin, we all have the same capabilities.

What happened to Jessica is horrible, no one, child or adult, should have to go through such slow death.

I'm not trying to side with the killer, but could it be that in his sick, twisted mind, he could not differentiate between killing face to face and killing without witnessing the actual death of his victim ?

 

[Brother Bob]

I'm not trying to side with the killer, but could it be that in his sick, twisted mind, he could not differentiate between killing face to face and killing without witnessing the actual death of his victim ?

Could it be he is of the devil?

I am shocked to learn the "elect" could be capable of such things? So the "elect" can rape little girls and bury them alive?

 

[DHK]

Could it be he is of the devil?

It could be. But since we don't know the heart, that is not our determination. It is not our judgement call. Only God knows the heart.

 

[Brother Bob]

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?__________________
DHK

Eze 36:26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Eze 36:27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

Kinda blows your theology away now doesn't it?

 

[DHK]

Eze 36:26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Eze 36:27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

Kinda blows your theology away now doesn't it?

No it doesn't Bob.
Look at the context:

Ezekiel 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

He is speaking to the nation of Israel. He says to the nation of Israel that he will give them new hearts. He is speaking of the millennial kingdom, not now.

 

[Brother Bob]

He is speaking to the nation of Israel. He says to the nation of Israel that he will give them new hearts. He is speaking of the millennial kingdom, not now.__________________
DHK

He might be speaking to Israel but He is talking about how He will deliver them.

Strange you used Jer. and when I use Ezk. it is wrong. :laugh: :laugh:

Rom 2:29But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Heb. 3:
8: Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10: Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11: So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12: Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13: But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14: For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

You better take heed to the word of God!

 

[RichardJS]

...can you be saved and not know it?

It depends, you can not be subjectively saved and not know it but you can be saved objectively and not know it. So the elect were saved in eternity and at the cross which preceeds our having faith.

 

[EdSutton]

It depends, you can not be subjectively saved and not know it but you can be saved objectively and not know it. So the elect were saved in eternity and at the cross which preceeds our having faith.

Welcome to the BB.

What exactly is "subjectively saved" supposed to mean in contrast to "saved objectively"? Since I did not find either of those phrases in the Bible (but I do find 'saved' and 'lost'), you understand, "Ah 'on't git it!" as my nephew would say.

Ed

 

[RichardJS]

Welcome to the BB.

What exactly is "subjectively saved" supposed to mean in contrast to "objectively saved"? Since I did not find either of those phrases in the Bible, you understand, "Ah 'on't git it!" as my nephew would say.

Ed

I would distinguish a fourfold justification:

1. In eternity in Christ (Objective)
2. At the cross in Christ (Objective)
3. In the conscience/ in my person (Subjective)
4. At the Judgement seat of Christ

I would then say that number 3 is subjective in that it happens to me in person whereas 1 and 2 happen before I was born and were done in Christ.

Clearer?

 

[Brother Bob]

Well Ed; There are some that are "mindless", so they don't know nutting.

 

[Brother Bob]

I would then say that number 3 is subjective in that it happens to me in person whereas 1 and 2 happen before I was born and were done in Christ.

Clearer?

Is the conscience "exact". I mean your conscience might "excuse" or "accuse" something that mine would not or visa versa? Your conscience might feel "saved", when I had the exact same thing but my conscience did not feel "saved"?
Our circumstances, how we were raised, where we were raised and many factors determine much about our "consciences".

 

[EdSutton]

Well Ed; There are some that are "mindless", so they don't know nutting.

Speaking from experience, Bob?? {wheeze} {snort}

Ed