Stockholm syndrome so everyone get this from being confined against there will. This a legal term for set me free from Jail for the most part. Not to mention I do not believe in that Garbage either.
This is just your theory none of what you have said here proves anything.
This may be what you believe but I disagree. Anyone can leave slavery. Many have and many still do. Simply by there freewill.
Slavery is very breakable. Just look at all the slaves that use to be in America.Look to those slaves for there out standing freedom of there own will. You haven't got a leg to stand on. You haven't proven anything
Absolute nonsense.
Don't you know that reading such materials just indoctrinates you deeper into Calvinism. I'm not interested in the writings of men What men think does not impress me. Especially on spiritual matters. The Bible is all I need and they disagree with Mr Edwards
MB
Can you prove by Scripture
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Oct 3, 2021.
Page 3 of 8
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
Think through what you are holding to. Your determinism is your big problem. You have to have God determine everything then you have to jump through hoops of your own making to save Him from the position that you put Him in.
God has a plan and His plan will be fulfilled. He just does not need your determinism to accomplish His plan. -
It just isn't there.
If you can find it, please post the Scriptures that tell us this.
However, I've looked and I can find nothing that tells me that man is actually willing to heed the commands of our Creator, unless it's for selfish reasons such as agreeing to anything to save one's life;
Only to go back on our word and back into disobeying Him once the "heat" is off.
We don't need the Lord's help to do that.
But, we do need Him to change our hearts and minds when it comes to desiring sin, and the pleasures of it. -
But it seems that you believe that God has indeed given men a choice of whether or not to believe on Christ.
Would you please list those passages for the benefit of the reader?
According to the Scriptures and the way that I understand them, given the choice, we would not choose to repent and believe.
It would require giving up that which we love, and approaching Who we hate in true and genuine repentance and reconciliation.
The matter comes down to willingness on our part.
I suggest this...Begin at Romans 1:18-32.
Keep going to Romans 2, then Romans 3.
By the time you hit the end of Romans 3, I think you should have enough information to see how mankind really treats the Lord apart from His "waking us up".
Being "dumb" has nothing to do with our sinful and rebellious attitude...
Being naturally resistant to Him and His words, is our problem. -
I will stand on the Lord Jesus' right hand ( Matthew 25:31-46 ) at the Judgment...not by my choice, but because of God's choice;
As will anyone who truly believes on Christ Jesus.
I can find nothing, in its proper context, that contradicts what the so-called "Calvinist" calls, "Total Depravity".
What I can say is, "I do indeed trust the Scriptures...each and every word."
Do you believe every word in that precious book?
I hope so, my friend.
I'd be more than happy to tell you how I see them.
Perhaps you would clarify where you see the Scriptures being twisted, by quoting a passage where you see this being done...at least for my benefit.
That is not my purpose here. -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
You said you read the post I did to Austin but you still do not see that God expects man to think. You want one that saves you before you believe and then drops faith into you so you can believe. Sad real sad.
You keep following your DoG and LBCF I will follow that Bible and Christ Jesus. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Silverhair,
God determines ...not us;
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
this is not a biblical teaching, it is carnal human philosophy of the natural man, who is not saved.
It is the case that you have not discovered yet.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Silverhair,
As many times as you have been asked to actually look at your DoG and LBCF what I get is well it must be true because I believe itClick to expand...
Can you show any post where I said any such thing?? Post the post where I said that?
Well if you can live with the DoG that makes you a puppet then so be it.[/QUOTE]
This kind of ignorant comment shows you are not looking for truth. I took time to answer you and you repeat this rubbish?
Critical thinking must not be important to youClick to expand...
3 For what saith the scripture?
Even your LBCF or WCF which ever you think is best have so many contradictions and evasions in them it shows just how bad a man made text can be.Click to expand...
You said you read the post I did to Austin but you still do not see that God expects man to think. You want one that saves you before you believe and then drops faith into you so you can believe. Sad real sad.Click to expand...
Belief is simultaneous with regeneration, death to life.
You keep following your DoG and LBCF I will follow that Bible and Christ Jesus.Click to expand...
Your frustration is, that they forgot more bible than you will ever know. Those confessional members on here have no problem refuting your shallow protestations and that you find frustrating.Click to expand... -
MB said: ↑Stockholm syndrome so everyone get this from being confined against there will. This a legal term for set me free from Jail for the most part. Not to mention I do not believe in that Garbage either.Click to expand...
Believers are free, for the Christ said, believers would be “free indeed.”
MB said: ↑This is just your theory none of what you have said here proves anything.Click to expand...
MB said: ↑This may be what you believe but I disagree. Anyone can leave slavery. Many have and many still do. Simply by there freewill.Click to expand...
So was that person ever truly free?43When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it passes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ On its return, it finds the house vacant, swept clean, and put in order. 45Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and dwell there; and the final plight of that man is worse than the first.
MB said: ↑Slavery is very breakable. Just look at all the slaves that use to be in America.Look to those slaves for there out standing freedom of there own will. You haven't got a leg to stand on. You haven't proven anythingClick to expand...
Look at this passage to see true freedom of the believer entails struggle with the old nature.
So even the believer must realize there is nothing good in the flesh, it is SOLD under sin. Sold means no freedom does it not?14For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am fleshly, having been sold under sin.15For what I do, I do not understand. For what I want, this I do not do; but what I hate, this I do. 16Now if that which I do not want, this I do, I consent to the Law, that it isgood. 17And in that case I am no longer doing it, but the sin dwelling in me.
18For I know that there dwells in me nothing good, that is, in my flesh. For to will is present with me, but not to do good. 19For the good that I desire, I do not do; but the evil that I do not want, this I practice. 20Now if what I do not want, I do this, it is no longer I who do it, but sin dwelling in me.
21So I find the principle in my desiring to do good, that evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man; 23but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and making me captive to the law of sin being in my members. 24O wretched man I am! Who will deliver me out of this body of death? 25Thanks be then to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!
MB said: ↑Absolute nonsense.Click to expand...
MB said: ↑Don't you know that reading such materials just indoctrinates you deeper into Calvinism. I'm not interested in the writings of men What men think does not impress me. Especially on spiritual matters. The Bible is all I need and they disagree with Mr Edwards
MBClick to expand...
You claim to hold to Scriptures as your final authority, and that is as it should be for all believers.
Having the presented you the Scriptures in this post, I will wait to see if you then will modify your understanding or remain entrenched in a view that is frail. -
Silverhair said: ↑You are the ones that have made God a robot master, your determinism requires that.Click to expand...
Read your own LBCF or DoG and tell me that you can really make free will choices.Click to expand...
So much of this discussion is you making up an argument that you then argue against. It's fascinating to watch you fight with yourself.
You cannot. Your denial that man has a God given free will just shows your attachment to the Calvinist system.Click to expand...
So, a human can never will himself to choose God because the person in the flesh cannot do so. (Romans 8 & Ephesians 2)
Do you actually read what you write. before you post it.Click to expand...
>>The strawman is created that if humans do not have the capacity to choose their own actions, they therefore become robots of the one who acts as their master.<<Click to expand...
If man cannot chose anythingClick to expand...
[/QUOTE]then that requires that all things are directed by their master.[/QUOTE]
There is no then, because your "if" is a figment of your imagination.
In other words you can do nothing of your own free will so you are just a human robot.Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I have shown you that your imagined assertion is only in your mind and nowhere else.
If your view of election and predestination were in fact biblical, but since that is not the case.Click to expand...
Click to expand...
You mean the view presented in Romans 8-11 as well as Ephesians 1?
I can quote these passages once again for you. Will you still say the Bible isn't biblical? I don't even have to explain anything from these passages as they explain themselves. However, you work hard to explain them away to maintain your strawman philosophy about a free will never expressed anywhere in the Bible.
All man are sinful: Rom_3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,Click to expand...
Man knows he is a sinner:Click to expand...
Joh_16:8
"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;Click to expand...
And in his state of sin and unbelief he stands condemned: Joh_3:18
he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.Click to expand...
He can only come to the Father [be saved] through belief in Jesus: Joh_14:6
Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.Click to expand...
This is done by trusting in Jesus as Lord and Saviour: Rom_10:9, Rom_10:13
10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."Click to expand...
For the man to come to faith in Christ, he has to be drawn: Joh_6:44
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.Click to expand...
And all are being drawn: Joh_12:32
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."Click to expand...
Those weight down by sin are invited to come: Mat_11:28
"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.Click to expand...
You leave it to men to feel their own sinfulness apart from God.
Jesus came to save the lost, the sinners: Luk_19:10; 1Ti_1:15
19:10 "For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost."
1:15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners,Click to expand...
The gospel message is used to draw people: Eph_1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,Click to expand...
For the man who hears and learns will be drawn: Joh_6:45
"It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.Click to expand...
John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
Salvation is available to all: Rom_2:4Click to expand...
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?Click to expand...
The sacrifice Jesus made is for everyone: 1Jn_2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.Click to expand...
If the all is universal, then every human would no longer be held guilty for their sins. Jesus would pay the ransom for their sins in full and God would have no justification for condemning anyone to hell. I wonder how you dance around that reality.
John is, however, telling his audience that Jesus is not only the propitiation for he and them, but for all in the world who believe. This is consistent with all the other verses that you have provided as well as what I have provided.
Silverhair, are you a proponent of universalism?
Can be applied to anyone: Rom_3:25 b, Rom_3:26
This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.Click to expand...
This is the heart of God, the salvation of man 1Ti_2:3-4
This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.Click to expand...
Of course not. The context tells us how to understand this verse.
1 Timothy 2:1-6 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.
We see that salvation isn't just for the poor or slaves or common workers. God will save from all types of people and it is God's desire to do so. This is why we pray for all people, as well as kings and those in high places. God saves kings as well as paupers.
The Father sent His son as saviour of the world: Joh_3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.Click to expand... -
tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite Supporteragedman said: ↑Have you not read that there is no freedom of the will with the unbeliever? They are enslaved to the boundaries this world offers. They have no ability to understand, nor care about the matters of eternity other than some emotional conjure in which changes them not.
Believers are free, for the Christ said, believers would be “free indeed.”
Fine, where does the unbeliever get their language and vocalizations? From the heavens or from the earth?
Let’s see what the Scriptures teach about the person who attempts to reform yet has not the Holy Spirit.
So was that person ever truly free?43When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it passes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ On its return, it finds the house vacant, swept clean, and put in order. 45Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and dwell there; and the final plight of that man is worse than the first.
slavery is broken in only one condition. That is at the proclamation of the salvation of an individual.
Look at this passage to see true freedom of the believer entails struggle with the old nature.
So even the believer must realize there is nothing good in the flesh, it is SOLD under sin. Sold means no freedom does it not?14For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am fleshly, having been sold under sin.15For what I do, I do not understand. For what I want, this I do not do; but what I hate, this I do. 16Now if that which I do not want, this I do, I consent to the Law, that it isgood. 17And in that case I am no longer doing it, but the sin dwelling in me.
18For I know that there dwells in me nothing good, that is, in my flesh. For to will is present with me, but not to do good. 19For the good that I desire, I do not do; but the evil that I do not want, this I practice. 20Now if what I do not want, I do this, it is no longer I who do it, but sin dwelling in me.
21So I find the principle in my desiring to do good, that evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man; 23but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and making me captive to the law of sin being in my members. 24O wretched man I am! Who will deliver me out of this body of death? 25Thanks be then to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Perhaps now that I showed you the Scripture you will understand the principle I presented is not nonsense.
For someone who hasn’t read Edwards, you go back away from such indictment. I don’t puff up Edwards, Graduate students still study and marvel at the insights of that 13 year old student of Yale.
You claim to hold to Scriptures as your final authority, and that is as it should be for all believers.
Having the presented you the Scriptures in this post, I will wait to see if you then will modify your understanding or remain entrenched in a view that is frail.Click to expand... -
Silverhair Well-Known MemberIconoclast said: ↑Silverhair,
.
Can you show any post where I said any such thing?? Post the post where I said that?Click to expand... -
Silverhair Well-Known MemberAustinC said: ↑This assertion is, of course, false and is a strawman that is illogical, yet you assert it without care.
Amen, yet, only those who believe are saved. I already quoted you Jesus words from John 10. Jesus tells you that all whom the Father gives him will believe. Will you ignore Jesus words in order to maintain a position that is made of straw?Click to expand...
Nice of you to admit that your version of God has to drag people into heaven. That is not what the bible says but then you know that you just ignore it.
You seem quite content to ignore scripture and just hold on to your false view of God. Sorry but God will not fit into the little box you want to keep Him in. God loves the world and wants all to come to repentance, that is His desire for mankind. The reality is that not all will chose to accept the offer, that's biblical.
By your own words God has to drag people into heaven so they are not there because they love Him but because He forced them to be. Where do you get this twisted view because it sure is not in the bible.
Omni Argument Against Calvinism
1. If 5-point Calvinism (and “Irresistible Grace”) is true, then for any person X, if God desires to, has the power to, and knows how to cause X to go to Heaven and not suffer eternally in Hell, then X will go to Heaven and not suffer eternally in Hell.
2. If God is omnibenevolent {All-loving, or infinitely good}, omnipotent {is all-powerful}, and omniscient {seeing all or knowing all}, then for any person X, God desires to, has the power to, and knows how to cause X to go to Heaven and not suffer eternally in Hell.
3. There is at least one person who will not go to Heaven and suffer eternally in Hell.
4. Therefore, one cannot affirm both {1} that 5-point Calvinism is true and {2} that God is omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient.
It is intuitively obvious (a properly basic belief) and we simply know that good judges do not give death sentences to people as a punishment for crimes these individuals are not responsible for.
Paul affirms premise {2 above} in 1Ti_2:4 “[God] desires ALL people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
Therefore, if one affirms that God possesses His omni attributes maximally, and that 1Ti_2:4 is true, and that some people do suffer eternal Hell, then it logically follows that they must reject 5-point Calvinism.
1- If Calvinism is true, whomever God provides “irresistible grace” to will go to Heaven and not suffer eternal Hell.
2- If God is omnibenevolent, He would not desire to, nor would He, send anyone to suffer eternal Hell for choices they were powerless to make without God’s irresistible grace.
3- If God is omnipotent, he could provide irresistible grace to all people.
4- If God is omniscient, he would know how to provide irresistible grace to all people.
5- Some people suffer eternal Hell.
6- Therefore, either God is not omnibenevolent, or not omnipotent, or not omniscient (pick at least one), or irresistible grace (and Calvinism) is false. -
agedman said: ↑Can you prove by Scripture that there is true freedom of the will?
Does not the Scripture state, “For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
Does not the Scripture state, “But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.”
My own view is that God is the creator of parameters and establishes boundaries.
The unbeliever may know and give according to the boundaries established by God. One of those is that the heart (will) of the unbeliever is “desperately wicked. And in such a state of wickedness is slavery, not freedom.Click to expand...
Returning to the OP, I was reading in Ephesians and came across this in contrast to the believers walk.
How is it that there is “freedom of the will” when believers are contrasted with unbelievers in light of the Ephesians quote above?…walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
understanding darkened
Vanity of their mind
Alienated from the life of God
Ignorance and blindness
Past feeling
Work all uncleanness, greediness
These are said to have freedom of the will?
No, for as is stated to believers in another passage, “such were some of you, but God …”
Without the core change that takes place in a believer is accomplished by God giving that person a new nature, making them a new creature created in Christ, there is and cannot be true freedom of the will. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterSilverhair said: ↑So you deny that you trust in your DoG & LBCF. Your posts say otherwise.Click to expand...
I never said the 1689 is true Because I. Believe it. -
Silverhair Well-Known MemberIconoclast said: ↑Not only did you not respond to the posts but now change your statement because I never said any such thing.you cannot show it because like your theology you made it up.
I never said the 1689 is true Because I. Believe it.Click to expand... -
Silverhair said: ↑>>Here, you must either claim universalism or admit that a limited number of people from all nations, tribes and tongues are dragged in by God. <<
Nice of you to admit that your version of God has to drag people into heaven. That is not what the bible says but then you know that you just ignore it.
You seem quite content to ignore scripture and just hold on to your false view of God. Sorry but God will not fit into the little box you want to keep Him in. God loves the world and wants all to come to repentance, that is His desire for mankind. The reality is that not all will chose to accept the offer, that's biblical.
By your own words God has to drag people into heaven so they are not there because they love Him but because He forced them to be. Where do you get this twisted view because it sure is not in the bible.
Omni Argument Against Calvinism
1. If 5-point Calvinism (and “Irresistible Grace”) is true, then for any person X, if God desires to, has the power to, and knows how to cause X to go to Heaven and not suffer eternally in Hell, then X will go to Heaven and not suffer eternally in Hell.
2. If God is omnibenevolent {All-loving, or infinitely good}, omnipotent {is all-powerful}, and omniscient {seeing all or knowing all}, then for any person X, God desires to, has the power to, and knows how to cause X to go to Heaven and not suffer eternally in Hell.
3. There is at least one person who will not go to Heaven and suffer eternally in Hell.
4. Therefore, one cannot affirm both {1} that 5-point Calvinism is true and {2} that God is omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient.
It is intuitively obvious (a properly basic belief) and we simply know that good judges do not give death sentences to people as a punishment for crimes these individuals are not responsible for.
Paul affirms premise {2 above} in 1Ti_2:4 “[God] desires ALL people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
Therefore, if one affirms that God possesses His omni attributes maximally, and that 1Ti_2:4 is true, and that some people do suffer eternal Hell, then it logically follows that they must reject 5-point Calvinism.
1- If Calvinism is true, whomever God provides “irresistible grace” to will go to Heaven and not suffer eternal Hell.
2- If God is omnibenevolent, He would not desire to, nor would He, send anyone to suffer eternal Hell for choices they were powerless to make without God’s irresistible grace.
3- If God is omnipotent, he could provide irresistible grace to all people.
4- If God is omniscient, he would know how to provide irresistible grace to all people.
5- Some people suffer eternal Hell.
6- Therefore, either God is not omnibenevolent, or not omnipotent, or not omniscient (pick at least one), or irresistible grace (and Calvinism) is false.Click to expand...
Are you unaware of this fact, Silverhair? John 6 does not support your view at all. -
agedman said: ↑Have you not read that there is no freedom of the will with the unbeliever? They are enslaved to the boundaries this world offers. They have no ability to understand, nor care about the matters of eternity other than some emotional conjure in which changes them not.
Believers are free, for the Christ said, believers would be “free indeed.”
Fine, where does the unbeliever get their language and vocalizations? From the heavens or from the earth?
Let’s see what the Scriptures teach about the person who attempts to reform yet has not the Holy Spirit.
So was that person ever truly free?43When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it passes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ On its return, it finds the house vacant, swept clean, and put in order. 45Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and dwell there; and the final plight of that man is worse than the first.
slavery is broken in only one condition. That is at the proclamation of the salvation of an individual.
Look at this passage to see true freedom of the believer entails struggle with the old nature.
So even the believer must realize there is nothing good in the flesh, it is SOLD under sin. Sold means no freedom does it not?14For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am fleshly, having been sold under sin.15For what I do, I do not understand. For what I want, this I do not do; but what I hate, this I do. 16Now if that which I do not want, this I do, I consent to the Law, that it isgood. 17And in that case I am no longer doing it, but the sin dwelling in me.
18For I know that there dwells in me nothing good, that is, in my flesh. For to will is present with me, but not to do good. 19For the good that I desire, I do not do; but the evil that I do not want, this I practice. 20Now if what I do not want, I do this, it is no longer I who do it, but sin dwelling in me.
21So I find the principle in my desiring to do good, that evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man; 23but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and making me captive to the law of sin being in my members. 24O wretched man I am! Who will deliver me out of this body of death? 25Thanks be then to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Perhaps now that I showed you the Scripture you will understand the principle I presented is not nonsense.
For someone who hasn’t read Edwards, you go back away from such indictment. I don’t puff up Edwards, Graduate students still study and marvel at the insights of that 13 year old student of Yale.
You claim to hold to Scriptures as your final authority, and that is as it should be for all believers.
Having the presented you the Scriptures in this post, I will wait to see if you then will modify your understanding or remain entrenched in a view that is frail
.Click to expand...
MB -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterSilverhair said: ↑As many times as you have been asked to actually look at your DoG and LBCF what I get is well it must be true because I believe it. Well if you can live with the DoG that makes you a puppet then so be it. Critical thinking must not be important to you. Even your LBCF or WCF which ever you think is best have so many contradictions and evasions in them it shows just how bad a man made text can be.
You said you read the post I did to Austin but you still do not see that God expects man to think. You want one that saves you before you believe and then drops faith into you so you can believe. Sad real sad.
You keep following your DoG and LBCF I will follow that Bible and Christ Jesus.Click to expand...
It looks as if you are having trouble with basic honesty.
Your posts are loaded with assertions but when you are asked to prove them you hide from answering.This is dishonest.
Your first sentence here says;
WHAT I GET FROM YOU IS THE 1689 CONFESSION IS TRUE BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT.
To be clear-
I asked you to post any post where I said it is true- BECAUSE I believed it??? As if my subjective belief was the deciding factor.
To be clear-
The 1689 is very clear and a true summary of bible truth because it is Christ centered and is scripturally based overall.
I do not believe the Pope was THE ANTICHRIST....he was antichrist but.not THE antichrist.
However on matters of faith and practice it is spot on.
Your changing of the wording when I asked you to demonstrate what you posted, is indicative of a person caught not being truthful. -
Silverhair said: ↑So you don't believe the LBCF or DoG. Good to know. So what do you believe?Click to expand...
Tell me, when have I quoted from a source outside of the Bible in this discussion thread?
Please acknowledge that you are the one who has brought up external documents in which you contend with yourself. When you write, it's like watching a schizophrenic argue with himself, completely unaware that the bystanders have never stated anything that the schizophrenic is arguing.
Now, large passages of God's word have been provided to you.
I have answered all your verses you used to try argue for free will. I contend that your scriptural argument has no merit and even show you that you misunderstand scripture. It is in that arena where the argument lies. If you cannot stick with scripture alone...you will be arguing with yourself, like a schizophrenic.
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