Question: Our CoC friends state that you must believe and be baptized in order to be Christian. Would you consider them to be Christians?
Qustion: There are some (on this board) that believe that one can fall away from his/her salvation due to their unrepented sins. Would you consider them to be Christians?
Just wondering.
Catholic or Christian
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Rufus_1611, Jan 5, 2007.
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FriendofSpurgeon Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Catholic doctrine for salvation is that grace is imparted through the sacraments...
Council of Trent 7th Session March 3, 1527
Canon VII – If any one saith, that grace, as far as God’s part is concerned, is not given through the said sacraments, always, and to all men, even though they receive them rightly, but (only) sometimes, and to some persons; let him be anathema.
...if, like myself, you do not believe this then, according to the Catholic Church, you and I are damned to hell. Seems like a pretty erroneous (and hateful) doctrine, don't you agree? -
The sacraments aren't grace, but are considered a means of grace; one of the ways God's grace is shed abroad upon the hearts of human beings. -
Is the Pope antichrist or the Antichrist FriendofSpurgeon or was your friend in error? -
FriendofSpurgeon Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the Popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name."
Pop"er*y (?), n. The religion of the Roman Catholic Church, comprehending doctrines and practices; -- generally used in an opprobrious sense. (Source: 1828 Webster's)
Did you catch that Spurgeon would think you insane for arguing what you are arguing? Some friend eh? -
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"...any one saith, that grace, as far as God’s part is concerned, is not given through the said sacraments, always, and to all men, even though they receive them rightly, but (only) sometimes, and to some persons..."
So if you think that the Sacraments are not a means of grace, I'd steer clear of Catholicism. Otherwise, what's the problem? -
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"...any one saith, that grace, as far as God’s part is concerned, is not given through the said sacraments, always, and to all men, even though they receive them rightly, but (only) sometimes, and to some persons..." -
FriendofSpurgeon Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
OK, let's see where to start.
1. First you quoted Calvin & Luther & I answered your post.
2. Not quite sure what you meant by an "effeminate" reformed faith you referred to another post - other than a slap at our fellow women believers. I would assume that effeminate faith is just as good as your manly faith.
3. Regarding Spurgeon, I'm sure I don't agree with everything he said. For one, he was a Baptist, so that separates us there, right from the start. However, I think he was on track regarding the doctrine of grace.
4. For that matter, I usually don't agree with everything with any of my friends. And, we are still friends.
5. Regarding exactly to whom Spurgeon was referring, I don't know.
6. If Spurgeon was referring to the current pope (Pius 9, I think), I might agree, though I don't know too much about him. He strongly believed in the immaculate conception and the infallability of the pope - so there's two key items there.
7. If Spurgeon was referring to the catholic church of his day, I might agree as well.
Now that I've answered your question (again), would you be kind enough to answer mine: What about your CoC brothers who add baptism. Christian or not? What about your Baptist/Adventist/Other brethren who add holy living -- Christian or not?
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DQuixote said:Rufus_1611, I appreciate your posts very much. You are correct in your observations. Indeed, it was Catholics who carried out the Crusades, not Christians. I often see Catholicism described "Judaism in New Robes," and I certainly agree. The Talmud, the "instruction" for Judaism, has been replaced by Catholic tradition. One must look with care at the similarities, however, between Catholicism and the charismatic movement. Charismatics look for signs and wonders, for actual visitations by God (how many report discussing things with Jesus, in person!?!), while Catholics crawl up a mountain on their knees to see a "visitation" by Mary, or her image on a restroom door, or have themselves nailed to a cross. In those areas Catholicism and the charismatic movement are not too far from holding hands! It will only get worse as the cry for an ecumenical, neutral God / church grows stronger. May I suggest that you read items posted in the politics section of the BB? Persons who identify themselves as Christian there endorse secularism on a regular basis! God's blessings as you continue your study in his word.Click to expand...
Can anyone say, "one world church"? -
FriendofSpurgeon Well-Known MemberSite SupporterRufus_1611 said:I will hold to my previous statement on this topic.Click to expand...Click to expand...
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For those who still naively think that Roman Catholics are Christians, please take the time to listen to the two part sermon linked below.
John MacArthur gives a ton and a half of Biblical evidence why they cannot reaonably claim to be Christians. -
What sermon?
Despite all of the abuses the RCC is still a Christian Church. The Gospel is still there even if they have attempted to bury it under Canon Law. I have seen too much positive evidence in the confession and lives of Catholics to blanketly call it a non-Christian church.
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Chemnitz said:What sermon?Click to expand...
Despite all of the abuses the RCC is still a Christian Church. The Gospel is still there even if they have attempted to bury it under Canon Law.Click to expand..."What is our response to this current issue, a truce with Rome? Are we going to betray the martyrs? Are we going to betray the history of our faith? Are we going to betray those who lived and died to get us the truth? Are we going to betray the Tyndales and the Luthers, Calvins and all the rest? Are we so senseless? Are we so blind? Are we so ignorant? Are we so faithless? Are we so cowardly that we will not fight?" - John MacArthur
“Popery is contrary to Christ’s gospel and is the Antichrist and we ought to pray against it. It should be the daily prayer of every believer that Antichrist might be hurled like a millstone into the flood and for Christ because it wounds Christ, because it robs Christ of His glory, because it puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement and lifts a piece of bread into the place of the Savior and a few drops of water into the place of the Holy Spirit and puts a mere fallible man like ourselves up as the Vicar of Christ on earth. If we pray against it because it is against Him who shall love the persons though we hate their errors, we shall love their souls though we loathe and detest their dogmas. And so the breath of our prayers will be sweetened because we turn our faces toward Christ when we pray.” - CH Spurgeon
"And the question came up, is the Pope in heaven? And you hear all these people say, “Yes, yes, yes.” People have asked me, “Is the Pope in heaven?” And my answer is, “Is the Pope Catholic?” Isn’t that the answer? I think he is, I think the Pope is Catholic. Does he believe Catholic theology? Yes. He is the guardian of Catholic theology. Do you get to heaven by works, by Mary, by Penance, by Baptism, by confession, by Rosary? No. This is another gospel. This is not the true gospel." - John MacArthur -
Catholic and Christianity are far, far different, as the East is far from the West.
Fake money bill 100 Dollar looks similar to genuine bill 100 dollar, but the fake money holder or user will be jailed when they turn out to be false.
Fake Christians will go to the hell.
If anyone is among the Roman Catholics, he or she will realize what is wrong with the RCC, and will come out of such pagan church. If not, he or she doesn't have the Holy Spirit in the heart.
There are many, many fake Christians even among the Protestants who claim themselves are born again, such are sympathetic or support Roman Cahtolic, because their father is the same as the father of RCC. Read John 8:44.
They are cheating themselves when they excuse they are Christians. By doing so, they are the only ones who lose the eternal life and go to the Hell. How miserable they are when they believe that they are going to the Purgartory since even the Robber at the Cross went to Paradise without going to Purgatory.
If they remain in RCC, it means that they don't believe that they can go to the Heaven directly but believe that they are going to the Purgatory to spend millions of years relying on the works of their relatives, almsgiving, descendants prayers etc.
They deny that their church is built upon Jesus Christ, the True Rock of Salvation but firmly insist that their church is built upon Peter, the human being, who denied Jesus Christ 3 times, who was rebuked as being Satan's advocator or puppet, by Lord Jesus.
They worship their god, son of a woman, virtually goddess decorated as Mary.
Watch out what you have is a genuine bill or a fake money!
When you buy a house you need a good inspection. When youy buy an eternal house, you need a good study and checking, whether it leads you to the Heaven or to the Hell. -
I reject the followings:
- Salvation by Grace + Works
- Salvation by baptism
- Infant Baptism
- Idol making for Mary or Joseph or Jesus
- Idol worshipping for those statues
- Immaculate Conception of Mary
- Perpetual Virginity of Mary
- Assumption : Ascension of Mary
- Theotokos : calling Mary Mother of God, meaning God is the Son of Mary.
- Mary as Mother of Church
- Queen of Heaven
- Clergy system with hierarchy
- Compulsory Celibacy
- Papacy
- Papal infallibility
- Inquisition
- Whorish Tradition of so-called holy tradition
- No Salvation outside Roman Catholic Church
- Excuses on Crusade
- Purgatory
- Limbo
- Mass which is ever asking forgiveness of the sins without bringing the Gospel that such sins were already forgiven at the Cross.
- Transubstantiation ( Magic performance by Catholic Priests)
- Confession to priests
- Extreme Unction after death
- Prayer to the dead
- Prayer for the dead
- Prayer to Mary
- Pray with Rosario
- all the signs of pagan origin such as ankh cross, mark of IHS, threefold hats for the pope, etc.
Inquisition
Indulgence
Proxy wars -
Hey, guys,
Sorry for the confusion. I didn't realize that the links didn't appear in my post. Here they are:
Hour one: "Sould Evangelicals Witness to Roman Catholics"
http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/p...9-2006-hour-1/
Hour two: "The Office of the Papacy"
http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/p...7-2006-hour-2/
Both are excellent.
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