". . . We love him, because he first loved us. . . ." -- 1 John 4:19.
Now Abraham was justified without works, (Genesis 15:6) ". . . But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. . . ." -- Romans 4:5 (James 2:23).
Now the work is not the requirement, but rather being justified by works is the evidence of already being justified without the work! (Genesis 22:12; James 2:24).
But because the works cannot be the requirement (Romans 11:6), total failure of one's works does not result in the loss of salvation (2 Corinthians 3:11-15).
Catholic Who Embraced Jesus As Lord And Savior Continued
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by John Yurich, Jan 17, 2019.
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John Yurich Member
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John Yurich Member
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
"Q: In Communion, do we commune with the sacrificed body and blood of Jesus, or the resurrected body and blood of Jesus?
A: The answer to your question is that we receive in, with, and under the bread and wine the true body and blood of Christ shed on the cross, Jesus Christ Who is now risen and ascended and sits at the right hand of God the Father. He is the same Christ, and when he gave us the Sacrament, as the Lutheran Confessions affirm, "he was speaking of his true, essential body, which he gave into death for us, and of his true, essential blood, which was poured out for us on the tree of the cross for the forgiveness of sins" (Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration VII, 49).
In the Sacrament, our Confessions further teach, the same Jesus who died is present in the Sacrament, although not in exactly the same way that he was corporeally present when he walked bodily on earth.
With Luther, the Formula of Concord speaks of "the incomprehensible, spiritual mode of presence
according to which he neither occupies nor yields space but passes through everything created as he wills....He employed this mode of presence when he left the closed grave and came through closed doors, in the bread and wine in the Supper...."[FC SD VII, 100; emphasis added].
All major historic Baptist Confessions repudiate this view.
Lutheran's do not believe in the Baptist perspective of the communion. Baptists do not believe it is a "sacrament" or that the real presence of Christ's body and presence are PRESENT in the bread and wine. Baptists do not believe it is sacramental - meaning - actual grace is communicated in or through the Supper.
Baptists believe the bread symoblizes his body and the wine symbolizes his blood and thus is DECLARATIVE of the gospel but does not convey grace.
The Lutheran view is just as contradictive to the Baptist view as the Catholic view is contradictive to the Baptist view - You can't have it both ways as they contradict each other. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
However, as you know, the use and employment of Biblical terms mean absolutely nothing as it is not the use of the terms but the meaning that determines whether or not that person or institution agrees with the Biblical meaning.
For example, there are extremely few denominations among thousands within Christendom that deny they believe in grace for salvation. Rome certaily proclaims that. Lutheran's proclaim that. Baptists proclaim that. Most Christian cults proclaim that (SDA, JW's, LDS, etc.).
My point is that the Lutheran's do not believe in the same meaning of "grace" as do confessional Baptists.
Indeed, any person or institution that denies eternal security of TRUE believers repudiate the meaning of salvation by "grace." Why? Because the only way one can lose salvation is not due to any failure on God's promise but a failure due to man (works). Few understand the Biblical meaning and extent of "works." Most define its meaning and scope to external actions as did the Pharisees but the Biblical meaning and scope includes all actions by man both INTERNAL and EXTERNAL actions. All who claim a TRUE born again child of God can be lost and go to hell do not believe in the Biblical meaning of "grace" but are believers in justification by works. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Where there is no scriptural baptism there can be no New Testament church. There can be saved people meeting as there is in many kinds of other Christian institutions. -
Early Christians did not employ gimmicks such as "Karate For Christ" or "Weightlifters for God" to lure people into their assembly. The message of the cross was the only drawing power they ever used (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 1:18). -
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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StopBaptistPredators.org -
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Biblicist, I remember you are a Baptist successionists. You are aware that the theory has been debunked by your OWN Baptists historians, are you not? Here is one of your own BEGGING you to stop promoting such a STUPID theory!
'Thankfully intellectually honest Baptists, such as James McGoldrick who was once himself a believer in Baptist successionism are conceding that this "trail of blood" view is, frankly, bogus. McGoldrick writes:
Extensive graduate study and independent investigation of church history has, however, convinced [the author] that the view he once held so dear has not been, and cannot be, verified. On the contrary, surviving primary documents render the successionist view untenable. . . . Although free church groups in ancient and medieval times sometimes promoted doctrines and practices agreeable to modern Baptists, when judged by standards now acknowledged as baptistic, not one of them merits recognition as a Baptist church. Baptists arose in the 17th century in Holland and England. They are Protestants, heirs of the reformers. (Baptist Successionism: A Crucial Question in Baptist History [1994], 1–2)'
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