Featured Charismatic Errors Listed

No! you are taking your or someone elses understanding of Greek. I am not saying that knowing Greek does not help..but when it contradicts other scriptures we need to re examine our understanding!

Again, I explained this in another post! Prophecy is not preaching! Peter preached! Tongues were mangnifying/praising God...the unbelievers understood in their own language what the believers were saying (praising/manifying God).

The people were the tool that the Holy Spirit was manifesting through...what was that manifestation? Tongues/supernatural utterance given by the Holy Spirit/magnifying God.
Example:"Many, O LORD my God, are the wonders you have done. The things you planned for us no one can recount to you; were I to speak and tell of them, they would be too many to declare." (Psalms 40:5) THey were declaring the wonderful works of God!

See above!

 

So are you now saying that we can not pray in private whether it is "in the spirit" or "our own understanding" at home? He was correcting tongues in the church but never said ANYWHERE that we could not "pray in the spirit" at home!!!

your point?? You can still use your gifts outside the general assembly. We can "discern" outside the assembly..we can receive a "word of knowledge" outside the assembly...We can pray for the sick outside the assembly..we can have faith outside the assembly...SO WHY CAN'T WE PRAY IN THE SPIRIT OUTSIDE THE ASSEBLY?

I have no problem with the assembly being outside a church building!!
You do not know how they were praying! It does not say! Eph. 6:18 says "Praying with all prayer in supplication IN THE SPIRIT, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication FOR ALL SAINTS."

I have defined this in many threads...but one more time for you....

Manifestation (phanerosis) means " a manifestation, a making viseble or observable." It is being detectable by the five senses.

We experience manifestations all the time...
Electric energy in a light bulb is manifested in the form of light and heat. We can not see the energy but we can feel and see the light and heat. ELECTRIC ENERGY BEING MANIFESTED.

A manifestation of chicken pox disease is a rash with small pimple-like sores. We cannot see the virus inside but we can see it once it is manfested-sores.

We cannot see the Holy Spirit..but He is manifested! 1 Cor. 14-10 shows how He can manifest to the physical world. It is not us doing any of the 9 listed! It is the Holy Spirit using us to manifest in the world as a witness that He was poured out to all flesh on the Day of Pentcost. He was given to the church... for the church...and will be here until we are raptured out of here!

If you say otherwise you are saying He took His Holy Spirit from us or that the Holy Spirit can not manifest himself anymore today. (Which I believe there might be some truth to the last statement..because of unbelief and the lukewarmness of His church).

 

He was correcting tongues in the church. That is what he was addressing. He did not address if you wanted to speak to UFO's in your house. What you do in your own house is your business. The letter is written to the church. If you want to pray standing on your head facing the wall with all the windows open, then do so, but please--not in the church. He was giving instructions for the church. And in doing so, he did not give permission for praying in a private prayer language anywhere. It is not mentioned in the Bible. Period. Case closed.

The point is that all the instruction given was for the church, not for the home, not for the private individual. He was not giving permission for you to pray in a private prayer language at home. There is no such permission given. You might as well deduce that he is giving permission to infants to pray in a private prayer language. You are just reading into the Scripture whatever you want. His instructions are solely to the local church, and that is all.

His instructions are for women to keep silence in the church.
But he does allow them to speak outside of the church.
His directions about tongues were for in the church; for they were not to be used outside of the church. The difference here is that women were useful outside of the church. The gifts of the Spirit were not. They were for the church, to be used in the assembly, for the assembly, for the edification of the assembly. Study chapter 12.

I do know this:
They were praying "in supplication". The word "supplication" simply means "request" as translated in the WEB. Requests must be understood. Everyone had to understand what the various requests were that they were praying for, else what good would it be.
Secondly it says that they were persevering. You don't persevere in meaningless gibberish. You persevere only if there is understanding; only if you know what you are praying. "in the Spirit" has not reference to tongues. I pray in the Spirit every day. But I would never pray in tongues. Please learn what the expression means. If they are going to pray for all saints, they need to know what their names are, needs are, etc., and be able to pray for them intelligently, and think about it. You can't do that when speaking in tongues.

The Holy Spirit is not manifested today in the ways that you say he is. If you cling to that position you "wrest scripture to your own destruction" and stand on dangerous ground.

Read John chapter 3. It speaks of the Holy Spirit there also. It also speaks of the New Birth. When one is born again the Holy Spirit will manifest itself, and usually does so but gradually. He does not use the gifts of the Holy Spirit to do so, but rather the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

He did not deny "praying in the spirit" at home! As a matter of fact he said "Forbid not to speak in tongues"

Grasping at straws again...As I said before it you look at it as you do all the intructions were given to the church...so we can not be a christian outside the walls of the assembly.

Exactly..correction of how it is to be in the assembly... does not apply to outside the assembly. Thanks for proving my point!

YOu pray with your understanding! That is great! I pray both "praying with the spirit" and I "pray with the understanding"..

THe fruit of the Spirit is the fruit of the recreated human spirit.
Fruit grows on branches, and Jesus said believers are the branches. The Fruit of the spirit grows in the life of the born-again, recreated believers becasue of the life of Christ resident and developed within believers-the branches.
Baby christians do not produce and grow fruit all at once. It takes time for a tree to mature and for the fruit to grow and develope.
But a baby CHristian can be filled with the Holy Ghost, and have power, and can evern have the gifts of the spirit operating in his life. The Corinthians were babes. They did not have a lot of fruit...but they did have the manifestaion of the Holy Spirit manifesting in their lives.
Fruit of the spirit is for holiness...manifestations of the Holy Spirit are for power. You can be holy without having power...and you can have power without being holy. The combination in a christians life is the best!:thumbs:

Simplified...
The 9 fruit of the Spirit, which are a result of the indwelling Presence.(developed nature)
The 9 gifts (manifestations) are a result of the infillling. (power)

 

He did not deny: driving a car, smoking a pipe, riding a bicycle, and many other things. He was writing a letter to the Corinthian church, not about "what Awaken can and cannot do in her house." The epistle was not addressed to you. It is a letter addressed to a local church, and when you start reading into the letter things that are not there you can make the Bible say anything you want it to.

You don't want to consider context. The context of the letter gives it the meaning.

You are not proving your own point. He is writing a letter to the church at Corinth. He tells the church not to sin. You take that as permission outside of the church to sin. You can sin all you want as long as it is not in the local church. That is precisely your reasoning.

The "spirit" is the mind, the intellect. To say you pray with your mind and not have understanding is contradictory.
If it is the Holy Spirit you are referring to, the Holy Spirit never operates without understanding. Thus if you pray without understanding you are definitely outside the will of God.

And what gifts would those be?
You can't even point to any of those gifts in operation today.
I challenged you to lay out evidence. Show me anyone who is demonstrating today those gifts and you can't. Why do you say something that can't be done. That is just hypocrisy.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit were available to them. But God had distributed them among the members according to his will. There were some who were selfishly trying to claim gifts that were not theirs to claim. See chapter 12.

That is not true. The gifts of the Holy Spirit were simply for the edification of the church, not for power. The filling of the Spirit (still available) is to speak forth the Word in power.

Yes, that is demonstrated in the Olympics and other sports. It is totally carnal.

I wouldn't want your type of Christianity.

No you have it wrong. The gifts of the Spirit have ceased, and they never were a result of the infilling of the Spirit. You are a very confused person.

 

You are trying to disprove "praying in the spirit" at home. I say it is not there! If I can pray in church..I can pray at home. If I can teach..I can teach at home. If I can encourage..I can encourage at home. Your theory does not line up with scriptures! NOWHERE does it say we can not speak in tongues at home!

Wrong..You are adding to the context! Saying that Paul said we can not speak in tongues/pray in the spirit at home!

No! You proved my point! But now you are just getting ridiculous!

Are you saying that you understand the Holy Spirit? Sorry! I do not understand God! His ways are way above mine!

Refer back to my other post! I am not repeating myself anymore!

Where does it say they were claiming selfishly others gifts? Chapter 12 is explaining that the Holy Spirit manifest a at His will and gives the gifts at His will. It goes on to say if you do not manifest in the body a certain way not to think you are less of a member. ALL members and their gifts are important.

Yes it is true! Study the fruit of the spirit...
And your scriptures to back up that the filling was JUST to speak forth the Word in power?
Jesus poured out the Holy Spirit for all to have power...to manifest! How He manifest through us is up to Him not us!

Yes, and that is how the Corinthians were...but yet they were manifesting the Holy Spirit.

YOu would not want to walk in holiness and power?

Sorry, but on the day of Pentecost.. something was manifested!
Sorry, but when the Gentiles were brought into the promise of the Holy Spirit..something was manifested!
Sorry, but when Peter and John laid hands on the Samaria..something was manifested!
Sorry, but when Paul laid his hands of the certain ones at Ephesus..something was manifested!
In the Corinthian church...manifestations took place.
I am not confused!

Again..THe Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost, to remain with the church until it is complete and presented to the Lord Jesus at His coming. Just as Jesus finished the work He came to do in the flesh, so the Holy Spirit will finish the work He came to do in the church!

THe gifts and callings of God are without repentance!

 

First, if you are a woman, it simply says to "shut up and keep quiet!"
Then it says you are to submissively learn from your husband at home.
Praying in tongues or other languages is a gift of the Holy Spirit given to the local church, not to individuals for their own selfish use. It was given for the edification of the church not for the selfish edification of oneself. 1Cor.12 teaches this very clearly.

Where did Paul give you permission to speak in tongues at home?
It is a gift given to the local church.

It is a gift given to the local church,
given as a sign to the Jews (14:21).
given as a sign to unbelievers (14:22).
given as a vehicle of revelation (13:8ff).
given as a sign of apostolic authentication (Heb.2:3,4)

The first century unbelieving Jews we don't have today.
The first century local churches we don't have today.
The Apostles we don't have today.
Temporary vehicles for God's revelation are not needed today.

Thus signs such as tongues are not needed today.

That is why you are so confused. Yes, I understand God and his workings as He reveals himself to me through his Word.

You have nothing to repeat. No evidence to give. You cannot demonstrate that any of the gifts are in operation today. You accuse others of being in unbelief when in truth it is you. You are in denial of these things because they have ceased and you won't admit it, or even give evidence that your position is true. You have no evidence.

Then why does that chapter say that some are more "honorable than others," and some more comely, and some "uncomely." It is nice to sound "spiritual" isn't it? Sometimes the truth hurts. Not everyone has the "important" gifts, and Paul was fairly blunt about that.

The Holy Spirit was poured out on the Day of Pentecost. Since then all believers are indwelt with the Holy Spirit from the day that they are saved.
The gifts of the Spirit have ceased. They were not used for power. They each had different purposes as 1Cor.12 explains.
The filling of the Holy Spirit was to preach the Word with power or boldness.

Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Your picture of Christianity is very carnal.

The way that you define these terms--no.

Something not available to you. It was an historical event. Don't go searching after those cloven tongues of fire.

Again, another historical event.

And do you assume you can lay your hands on people also. This too was an historical event.

Another historical event that involved OT Jews.

In a first century church under strict conditions, which not even you can meet.

You are very confused.

That has nothing to do with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. There are no gifts of the Spirit mentioned in the Great Commission.

You probably have no idea what that verse means.

 

We just don't agree on anything...so we will just disagree! This is getting boring and childish!

 

Ok, John...:wavey:

 

THere is still a lot to be learned about healing that I as a Baptist was never taught!
We will all die, that is for sure!
Sickness comes by several ways...
Sin (John 5:14) Jesus made it clear in this verse that this man's sickness returning, even something worse that what he'd had, could come on him if he sinned.
Sowing and reaping (Rom. 6:21-23) An alcoholic that drinks all their llife and gets a lliver disease, they did that to themselves!
A direct attack from satan..we live in a fallen world!
Natural things..If we are not paying attention while walking down stairs, we could trip, fall, and break a leg, neck, or collarbone. It just happens!

On healing I still have more questions than answers..but I believe there is more to it than what we were taught!
As far as Pauls thorn..there is alot of debate about it..

Paul tells us exactly what it was: It was a "messenger of Satan" (2 Corinthians 12:7). Paul didn't use a Greek word for sickness or disease in this verse, but instead he specifically used the Greek word for "angel," and he specifically said that it was a demonic angel.

Paul pleaded with God three times to remove this "thorn," and then Paul boasted and delighted in it.

Paul did not ask God to heal him, but instead Paul asked God to take away (aphistemi, literally, "that it might depart from me") the "thorn." There's a big difference. This is the same Greek word which is used in Acts 12:10 when an angel "departed" from Peter, and in all of the 15 other occurrences of this Greek word in the New Testament it's never used in reference to sickness or healing (see Luke 2:37, 4:13, 8:13, 13:27, Acts 5:37, 38, 15:38, 19:9, 22:29, 1 Timothy 4:1, 6:5, 2 Timothy 2:19, and Hebrews 3:12). Paul wasn't asking for a sickness to be healed, but instead he was asking God to take away this demonic harassment.

What did this demon do to Paul? It "tormented" him, according to the NIV. The Amplified Version translates this Greek word by saying that it "buffeted" and "harassed" him. In addition to the verse that we're examining (2 Corinthians 12:7), this Greek word occurs 4 more times in the New Testament, where it means "to strike with the fists" (Matthew 26:67, Mark 14:65), "to be brutally treated" (1 Corinthians 4:11), and "to receive a beating" (1 Peter 2:20). This Greek word is never used in reference to sickness or disease. It's always used to describe someone brutally mistreating someone else.

Paul was not pleading for a healing. He was pleading to be delivered from persecutions and hardships.

 

Not sure what you are getting at? I asked a simple question...what you posted has nothing to do with what people thought of the way Jesus went about healing...

 

We believe that God can still do physical healings IF he chooses too, but up to His sovereign Will, NOT that He grants someone a gift of healing!

A BIG problem is that typically, charasmatics misunderstand the OT scriptures as regarding the concept of OT promises/blessings, and that healing wa sin the Cross!

many hold to God has promised us wealth and health, but that was ONLY specific to Isreal under provisions of thei rOld Covenant with God!

Also, they see healing provided for int he atonemntby peter and Isaiah BOTH tell us that His wounding/death was to pay for our sins specifically!

healing is provided for in the sense we shall ALL be glorified, but NOT a promise for it right here and now!

 

Maybe that is why we do not have that many being healed...we have denied the manifestation of healing!

Well, like I said...a lot has been left out on the teaching of healing. I have more questions than answers. But I am searching the scriptures to see if it is so...

 

That is not true.
First, who is the "we" that you speak of?
Second, you repeatedly say that "you" believe in the manifestation of healing, so that "we" is not all inclusive is it?
Third, even though "you" believe in it, you cannot demonstrate that it is in existence or operative. You have no proof. You can't point to a single faith healer on this earth who has the ability to heal (the gift of healing) as Peter did in Acts 5:16. So what possesses you to continue to assert that it exists when all the evidence points to the contrary?

 

:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey: