Christ Died for Our Sins

[KenH]

By James Smith in 1860.


' Those for whom Jesus died, are by the Holy Spirit convinced of sin, and are led to exercise sincere faith in him. He who believes, is born of God; for true faith in Christ, is the effect and proof of the new birth; and the new birth is produced by the Spirit, to honor Jesus, and that he may see of the travail of his soul and be satisfied.

If therefore I am born of God, I shall believe in Christ to the salvation of my soul; and if I believe in Jesus thus--there can be no question that he died for my sins.

If Christ did not die for them, then we must eternally die. How infinitely important then is faith in him, for to him give all prophets witness, that through His name, whoever believes on him, shall receive remission of sins. "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him!" '

- rest of article at Christ Died for Our Sins (gracegems.org)

 

[37818]

. . . faith in Christ, is the effect and proof of the new birth; . . .

Goes counter to Scripture. The Biblical faith precedes the new birth. There is absolutely no Scripture that teaches the required faith to be the result of the new birth.

 

[kyredneck]

Goes counter to Scripture

No, it doesn't.

The Biblical faith precedes the new birth.

No, it doesn't. And it's 'born from above', not the 'new' birth.

There is absolutely no Scripture that teaches the required faith to be the result of the new birth.

There most definitely is scripture that teaches God's quickening is absolutely required PRIOR to faith.

 

[37818]

There most definitely is scripture that teaches God's quickening is absolutely required PRIOR to faith.

Cite the Scripture.

And it's 'born from above', not the 'new' birth.

It is literally born over. Otherwise Nicodemus' questions do not make good sense, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" See Mark 10:14-15. Jesus told Nicodemus the what needs to be done. Then Jesus answers the how. John 3:5-21.

 

[KenH]

Cite the Scripture.

John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

"Were born". "Were" is past tense. It precedes believing.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

Faith is a gift from God. God does not give faith to reprobates but to His elect.

Ezekiel 16:6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.

God is the one that gives spiritual life. A spiritually dead person can do nothing to save himself. It is nonsensical from a Biblical perspective to think that he can.

 

[37818]

John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

"Were born". "Were" is past tense. It precedes believing.

So is the receiving in verse 12. The believing is an on going thing which precedes the receiving.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

The through faith, the faith precedes the receiving the gift which is the being saved.

Faith is a gift from God. God does not give faith to reprobates but to His elec

In Ephesians 2:8 the faith is not the gift, saved is the gift.

 

[KenH]

So is the receiving in verse 12. The believing is an on going thing which precedes the receiving.


The through faith, the faith precedes the receiving the gift which is the being saved.

In Ephesians 2:8 the faith is not the gift, saved is the gift.

Obviously, we have very different beliefs about what the gospel is.

 

[kyredneck]

Cite the Scripture.

I need cite only one of many:

14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged. 1 Cor 2

It is literally born over. Otherwise Nicodemus' questions do not make good sense, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

No, it is literally BORN FROM ABOVE, as in:

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. Gal 4

...as in:

3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;`
5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3

...as in:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

9 Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God. 1 Jn 3
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is begotten of God, and knoweth God. 1 Jn 4
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God: and whosoever loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 1 Jn 5

You get the idea of it? 'Born again' gives you free willers wiggle room to claim credit for the 'do over' as you 're wont to present it. 'Born from above/of God' eliminates any inclusion of the flesh in the affair:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

Forget Nicodemus's ignorance in the matter, that shouldn't even be considered in the rendering of 'anothen', Christ's 'correction' of Nicodemus should be the guiding factor.

 

[37818]

No, it is literally BORN FROM ABOVE, as in:

The Greek is γεννηθη ανωθεν born over, not γεννηθη εκ ανωθεν born from above.

 

[37818]

Obviously, we have very different beliefs about what the gospel is.

There is only one gospel.

Romans 1:16, ". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ."

1 Corinthians 15:1-4, ". . . the gospel . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . "

1 John 5:1, ". . . Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . ."

 

[Marooncat79]

Goes counter to Scripture. The Biblical faith precedes the new birth. There is absolutely no Scripture that teaches the required faith to be the result of the new birth.

Regeneration Precedes Faith: Six Passages in Paul That Prove Faith is a Gift


Monergism in Acts(ion): Seven Texts That Affirm The Priority of God’s Grace


Does regeneration necessarily precede conversion?

 

[Marooncat79]

6 Common Misconceptions About Calvinism

 

[kyredneck]

The Greek is γεννηθη ανωθεν born over, not γεννηθη εκ ανωθεν born from above.

Cite to me a translation that renders it as such.

 

[37818]

Cite to me a translation that renders it as such.

You have seen it.
ανωθεν is used in the New Testament only13 times. It is only once translated "again." It is used to explain what must be done to be able to enter the kingdom of God. Mark 10:14-15, ". . . | Allow | the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. . . ." Giving the reason for the need for the new birth.

 

[kyredneck]

You have seen it.
ανωθεν is used in the New Testament only13 times. It is only once translated "again." It is used to explain what must be done to be able to enter the kingdom of God. Mark 10:14-15, ". . . | Allow | the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. . . ." Giving the reason for the need for the new birth.

Whew, that's some gymnastics to get to the rendering you're trying to force. The Greek word is 'anothen' ( from above, from a higher place, of things which come from heaven or God, from the first, from the beginning, from the very first, anew, over again) can mean 'anew' or 'over again', but that's not what Christ meant, thus His further explanation in answering Nicodemus's unenlightened question in the next verse:

5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit. Jn 1 YLT

Christ wasn't speaking of an earthly physical birth which Nicodemus wrongly perceived, He was speaking of a spiritual birth FROM ABOVE.

"Born from above" syncs with a large amount of other scripture, old and new, and is consistent with the apostle John's (James also) intended use of the word anothen:

3 Jesus answered and said to him, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;' (YLT)
7 'Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above; (YLT)
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly , and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. Jn 3

11 Jesus answered , Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout . Jn 19

As is the case with James:

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Ja 1

15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure , then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. Ja 3

YLT conveys a 'celestial motif' in the dialogue (yea, the entire chapter) between Christ and Nicodemus that the rendering 'born again' misses:

2 this one came unto him by night, and said to him, `Rabbi, we have known that from God thou hast come -- a teacher, for no one these signs is able to do that thou dost, if God may not be with him.`
3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;`
7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
21 but he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought.`
27 John answered and said, `A man is not able to receive anything, if it may not have been given him from the heaven
31 he who from above is coming is above all; he who is from the earth, from the earth he is, and from the earth he speaketh; he who from the heaven is coming is above all. Jn 3 YLT

'Born again', or 'born anew', or 'born over' gives all you free willer enemies of sovereign grace 'wiggle room' to lay claim or take credit for something you had zilch to do with. You were 100% totally passive in the birth from above:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

'Born again', or 'born anew', or 'born over' totally detracts from a wonderful 'celestial motif' from within the scriptures beginning at Genesis 3:15 to Psalms 87 to Isaiah 54 to Galatians 4:26-29 to Revelation 12. 'Born from above' leads us to the 'city of God', the mother of us all.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Greek is rarely as straghtforward as we might like it to be.
ανωθεν is translated as 'again' in Galatians 4:9. It is also translated as 'from the beginning' in Luke 1:3.
The New Birth also appears in 1 Peter 1:3, but with a quite different Greek construction.
The reason it is translated as 'again in John 3:3 is because that is what Nicodemus understood it to mean. However, it may very well be that the Holy Spirit selected ανωθεν precisely because of its double meaning. "Nicodemus," Our Lord is saying, "you need a new birth; one that all your outward piety and book-learning cannot give you. You need a birth that comes from above."

 

[kyredneck]

The New Birth also appears in 1 Peter 1:3, but with a quite different Greek construction.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
23 having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which liveth and abideth. 1 Pet 1

This is corporate, not individual or personal. It is 'the regeneration' [Matthew 19:28]', 'the building again' of the house of David [Acts of the Apostles 15:14-16], the restoration of the Kingdom [Acts of the Apostles 1:6], the building of the Church [Matthew 16:18]. This 'regeneration' came about by the preaching of the gospel [1 Corinthians 4:15] which explains the 'corporate' intention of passages such as 1 Peter 1:3,23. Only those 'born from above' AND washed with the gospel [John 3:5] may 'enter into' this regeneration.

 

[KenH]

There is only one gospel.

On that you and I agree. And you are not espousing it. You are conditioning salvation on the sinner if you truly believe that the sinner somehow has to rise above his fallen, dead spiritual nature and manufacture true faith and look only to Christ as the LORD our Righteousness and look to no action or effort on his part in order to be regenerated. That you espouse that the sinner can believe without being regenerated first shows that you that you are somewhere on the false teaching continuum of Pelegianism, Semi-Pelagianism, Free Willism.

As Jonah said in Jonah 2:9, "Salvation is of the LORD." It is not of man in any way, shape, or form. From this, I shall not be moved.

 

[Alan Gross]

Obviously, we have very different beliefs about what the gospel is.

And there is ONE WAY of Salvation.

 

[37818]

Whew, that's some gymnastics to get to the rendering you're trying to force. The Greek word is 'anothen' ( from above, from a higher place, of things which come from heaven or God, from the first, from the beginning, from the very first, anew, over again) can mean 'anew' or 'over again', but that's not what Christ meant, thus His further explanation in answering Nicodemus's unenlightened question in the next verse:

5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit. Jn 1 YLT

Christ wasn't speaking of an earthly physical birth which Nicodemus wrongly perceived, He was speaking of a spiritual birth FROM ABOVE.

"Born from above" syncs with a large amount of other scripture, old and new, and is consistent with the apostle John's (James also) intended use of the word anothen:

3 Jesus answered and said to him, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;' (YLT)
7 'Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above; (YLT)
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly , and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. Jn 3

11 Jesus answered , Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout . Jn 19

As is the case with James:

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Ja 1

15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure , then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. Ja 3

YLT conveys a 'celestial motif' in the dialogue (yea, the entire chapter) between Christ and Nicodemus that the rendering 'born again' misses:

2 this one came unto him by night, and said to him, `Rabbi, we have known that from God thou hast come -- a teacher, for no one these signs is able to do that thou dost, if God may not be with him.`
3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;`
7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
21 but he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought.`
27 John answered and said, `A man is not able to receive anything, if it may not have been given him from the heaven
31 he who from above is coming is above all; he who is from the earth, from the earth he is, and from the earth he speaketh; he who from the heaven is coming is above all. Jn 3 YLT

'Born again', or 'born anew', or 'born over' gives all you free willer enemies of sovereign grace 'wiggle room' to lay claim or take credit for something you had zilch to do with. You were 100% totally passive in the birth from above:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

'Born again', or 'born anew', or 'born over' totally detracts from a wonderful 'celestial motif' from within the scriptures beginning at Genesis 3:15 to Psalms 87 to Isaiah 54 to Galatians 4:26-29 to Revelation 12. 'Born from above' leads us to the 'city of God', the mother of us all.

Born over is a literal translation. And ανωθεν in some of the other places it is indeed literally translated from above without the other Greek word. The need to be born again is to meet the requirements found in Mark 10:15.