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Christ Died for the Ungodly

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by KenH, Nov 30, 2021.

  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    November 28 - A.M. "Robert Hawker's "Poor Man's Morning And Evening Portion"

    "For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly."(Rom.5:6)

    My soul fold up this sweet and precious scripture, and carry it about with thee in thy bosom, and in thine heart, that it may help thee on at any time, and at all times, when thy strength seems gone, and there is no power left. Was it not when the whole nature of man was without strength, that Christ was given of the Father? And was it not equally so, when Christ came to seek and save that which was lost? And was it not in due time when Christ died for the ungodly; due time in his resurrection, due time in his ascension, "when he ascended up on high, led captivity captive, and received gifts for men, yea, even for the rebellious, that the Lord God might dwell among them?" Go further yet, my soul, as it concerns thyself was it not due time indeed, when Jesus passed by and saw thee in thy loathsome state of sin, cast out to perish, and when no eye pitied thee, that then his eye compassioned thee, and bid thee live? Who more ungodly than thee? Who more weak? Who more undeserving? Did Jesus then look upon thee, call thee, strengthen thee when thou wast without strength, and hath helped thee to this hour? Oh then, trust him now, trust him for ever. "His strength is made perfect in thy weakness." And depend upon it, when thou art most weak in thyself, then is the hour to be most strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. He that in due time died for the ungodly, will be thy strength in due time of need. (emphasis mine)
     
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  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, Christ died for the ungodly. He became the means of reconciliation for the whole world, all of humanity.
    The question to ask is why are believers ambassadors of Christ, with the task of begging the lost "be reconciled to God?"
    Ask yourselves, what action is required by the lost, to be reconciled? To say none is to nullify our task.
     
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes, man has action - prompted after regeneration, when God replaces a person's stony heart with a heart of flesh and gives him spiritual life, which results in that person coming to God through Christ in repentance and faith.
     
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  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Ezekiel 16:4-6 As for your nativity, on the day you were born your navel cord was not cut, nor were you washed in water to cleanse you; you were not rubbed with salt nor wrapped in swaddling cloths. No eye pitied you, to do any of these things for you, to have compassion on you; but you were thrown out into the open field, when you yourself were loathed on the day you were born. “And when I passed by you and saw you struggling in your own blood, I said to you in your blood, ‘Live!’ Yes, I said to you in your blood, ‘Live!’
     
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  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Utterly false claims.
    When is a person "made alive" (regenerated)? After being placed into Christ, for we are made alive together with Christ.
     
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    God chose His elect before the foundation of the world.

    Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

    Election happened way back in eternity, calling happens in time.

    You, sir, are quite badly mistaken.
     
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  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Equating entry into the Old Covenant with entry into the New Covenant is bogus.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Are we going to crank through all the bogus claims of Calvinism once again? 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes individual election before the foundation of the world, for we existed as "not a people" chosen for God's own possession. We had not received mercy before we received mercy.

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen through faith in the truth. To have faith, we must exist. Thus scripture requires that we are chosen by conditional election during our lifetime. It is a lock...
     
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Salvation has always been accomplished by God in exactly the same way - by God imputing the elect's sins to Christ and imputing Christ's righteousness to the elect.
     
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  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Sorry but claiming entry into the Old Covenant is the same as entry into the New Covenant denies the entire New Covenant.
    The OT saints had to wait in Abraham's bosom until after Christ died to enter heaven!!! No one entered heaven under the Old Covenant. Not one single human. John 3:13.

    We can crank through all your unbiblical claims...
     
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    No, it doesn't.
     
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  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Denial of the obvious does not negate the obvious. No one was individually chosen for salvation before they existed as "not a people." Full stop.
     
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    There are no different "entrances" into salvation. There is only one - Christ is the door - John 10:7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep."
     
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  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    If anyone should stop, sir, it is you. You sound like you are bound up by the pride of man and that you feel you must claim that YOU did something to merit YOUR salvation by YOUR own fallen, corrupted will - by repenting or believing or some such, by YOUR own decision that YOU somehow mustered up on YOUR own. I have news for you, sir - Isaiah 48:11 For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do it; For how should My name be profaned? And I will not give My glory to another. (emphasis mine)

    You are trying to claim glory for yourself! Away with such a vile idea!!!!
     
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  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Folks remember the claim was entry into the Old Covenant (Ezekiel 16:4-6) was equated with entry into the New Covenant. Now the claim has been mutated into entry into New Covenant Salvation is the same for all. But that, folks, was never the issue...
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Now we get the usual personal attacks, gratuitous insults, falsehoods and subject change smoke screed from yet another feeble minded Calvinist whose views have been shown to be unbiblical nonsense.

    1) Calling someone an enemy of the gospel is vicious, vindictive vilification.
    2) Claiming someone is bound up by the pride of man is vicious, vindictive vilification.
    3) Posting disinformation, such as my view is we do something to merit salvation, is vicious, vindictive vilification.
    4) Posting disinformation, such as the lost "muster up on their own" is vicious, vindictive, vilification.
    5) Posting disinformation, such as taking the glory belonging to God, is vicious, vindictive, vilification.

    Folks, faith is not works, but is according to grace.

    Romans 4:16
    For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
     
    #16 Van, Nov 30, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Talk about idiotic posts, take a look at this one...
    Did I say there were different entrances to Salvation? Nope
    Here is what I actually said:
     
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    @Van I have tried to expose you to the gospel of Christ. Have a nice day, sir.
     
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  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thanks, Sir, as it is pointless to crank through one unbiblical claim after another, then vilify one another.
     
  20. Silverhair

    Silverhair Active Member

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    ”Make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit:” a man cannot, indeed, create either of these by his own power; God alone can give them (Eze_11:19). But a man both can and should come to God to receive them: in other words, he can turn to God, and let both heart and spirit be renewed by the Spirit of God. And this God is willing to do; for He has no pleasure בְּמֹות הַמֵת, in the death of the dying one. Keil & Delitzsch

    Note that as a result of men turning to God He gives them a new heart. Now the question becomes why would they turn to God? If we look back to the previous verse we see
    "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions,
    {and why} so that iniquity will not be your ruin." Eze 18:30

    Man has to trust and repent before not after they get a new heart.
     
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