"Christian" Baptists vs "Other" Baptists

[Mark Osgatharp]

I think it is evident to all interested parties that there are two distinct and totally dissimilar groups of Baptists. There are sub-groups within these two major groups and crossovers in some points; but these two major groups represent the most monumental division.

Here is a contrast (in no particular order) between Baptists:

1. Inerrancy of the Bible versus Errancy of the Bible.

2. God's providence versus naturalism.

3. Direct creation versus evolution.

4. Christ as the only way of salvation versus many ways of salvation.

5. Human depravity and worthlessness versus human dignity and worth.

6. Salvation by grace versus salvation by self realization.

7. Sexual purity versus sexual debauchery.

8. Blood sacrifice for sin versus no sacrifice necessary.

9. Divine justice tempered by Divine mercy versus liscentuousness tempered by human rights.

10. Male authority in the home and church versus feminism.

11. Faith in God's word versus personal opinion.

12. Church purity versus church inclusiveness.

13. Authority of the Scriptures versus no authority at all.

14. Eternal damnation of the impenitent versus universalism.

15. The Holy Spirit as a guide to truth versus the Holy Spirit as a rubber stamp on my personal opinion.

16. Christ as real person versus Christ as an expression of my inner self.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea. It is high time that real Christian truth loving Baptists came out from among these [other] Baptists. As the Lord said,

"Come out from among them and be ye separate."

Mark Osgatharp

[ July 03, 2003, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]

 

[BrianT]

You really should read the rules of this board sometime. Rule #4 seems especially applicable here.

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by BrianT:
You really should read the rules of this board sometime. Rule #4 seems especially applicable here.

BrianT,

I have read the rules to which one agrees when he registers and I do not see where this post is in any way a violation of it.

I am not able to locate a list of numbered rules. Could you please direct me there or tell me what the "Rule #4" is which you think I have violated.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[BrianT]

Click on the words "the rules" in my last post. Also, at the bottom of every page there is a link named "Posting Rules".

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
It is high time that real Christian truth loving Baptists came out from among these infidel and anti-Christ Baptists. As the Lord said,

"Come out from among them and be ye separate."

Bye!

Gonna miss you on BaptistBoard!

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
It is high time that real Christian truth loving Baptists came out from among these infidel and anti-Christ Baptists. As the Lord said,

"Come out from among them and be ye separate."

Bye!

Gonna miss you on BaptistBoard! </font>[/QUOTE]BaptistBeliever,

Obviously, you don't have the slightest understanding of the Scriptural doctrine of separation.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[ColoradoFB]

It would seem to me that there should be room within the body of Baptist Christians to encompass a variety of political, theological and scientific views without being divisive over non-essentials of the faith.

Calling other Christians "Anti-Christ" seems to be close to a very grave sin. Self righteousness is tatamount to the sin of pride.

Even Jesus himself was accused of doing the work of the devil.

Luk 11:15 But some of them said, "He casts out demons by Be-el'zebul, the prince of demons";
Luk 11:16 while others, to test him, sought from him a sign from heaven.
Luk 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls.

I am amazed to constantly see some on this board accuse other board members of being non-Christian or Anti-Christ. No one knows the heart except God.

[ July 03, 2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: ColoradoFB ]

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
Obviously, you don't have the slightest understanding of the Scriptural doctrine of separation.

Actually, I think I do. Unfortunately, I believe that most fundamental Baptists have misunderstood separation.

I try to practice separation the way Jesus did – associating with sinners, spending time together and telling them the good news of the Kingdom. On the other hand, the Pharisees separated themselves from other Jews and tried to isolate and shame sinners in order to make society “pure”. They laid out a set of rules (often based on legitimate scriptural teaching, but with many human additions that undermined their value) for proper religious behavior and chastised those who did not obey their interpretation of them.

The Pharisees had real issues with Jesus and his association with sinners. They accused Him of being a false teacher (where have we heard that lately?), they accused Him of having a demon, they excommunicated those who testified that Jesus was doing the works of God, and they finally conspired with the Sadducees to make false charges against Jesus, turn Him over to the Romans and demand His death.

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by ColoradoFB:
It would seem to me that there should be room within the body of Baptist Christians to encompass a variety of political, theological and scientific views without being divisive over non-essentials of the faith.

ColoradoFB,

The Anti-Christ Baptists have no "essentials of the faith." They don't hold to the essentials of Christianity and they don't even think their own theories are essential to anything.

The division already exists and it is as wide as eternity.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:

Amen, Baptist Believer! So often I want to quote the words of Matthew 23 to many of the people on this board!

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
I try to practice separation the way Jesus did – associating with sinners, spending time together and telling them the good news of the Kingdom.

Which is exactly what I'm doing when I come to "The Baptist Board." Therefore I am not, as you implied in your other post, failing to be separate by coming into this forum and discussing the Scriptures with infidels who claim to be Baptists.

On the other hand, the Pharisees separated themselves from other Jews and tried to isolate and shame sinners in order to make society “pure”. They laid out a set of rules (often based on legitimate scriptural teaching, but with many human additions that undermined their value) for proper religious behavior and chastised those who did not obey their interpretation of them.

Yes, and what does that have to do with the true Biblical doctrine of separation? Because the Pharisees set up their own rules am I not to follow God's rules?

The Pharisees had real issues with Jesus and his association with sinners. They accused Him of being a false teacher (where have we heard that lately?), they accused Him of having a demon, they excommunicated those who testified that Jesus was doing the works of God, and they finally conspired with the Sadducees to make false charges against Jesus, turn Him over to the Romans and demand His death.

So what? Am I not to call false teacher false teachers simply because the Pharisees falsely accused Christ of being a false teacher?

You have still said nothing that would indicate you have the slightest idea what the Bible actually teaches about separation for God's people.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[latterrain77]

Originally posted by BrianT:
You really should read the rules of this board sometime. Rule #4 seems especially applicable here.

Hi BrianT. Why do you think that Mark's post/list is "trolling?" (i.e. rule #4). He has provided a legitimate general list of some opposing Biblical views that are topics of debate among Baptists (and other Christians too). Isn't it a good idea to reflect upon and debate those differences? Thanks! latterrain77

 

[ColoradoFB]

Mark,

On another thread, Dr. Bob said you were asked to edit "anti-Christ" out of your posts regarding other Baptists. Apparently you have no regard for the rules of the board or the requests of moderators, since you have not edited, and you continue your attacks on fellow Christians here.

It is my opinion that you are treading on dangerous theological ground here.

God bless,
CFB

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
The Anti-Christ Baptists have no "essentials of the faith."

Really? Do they really not have any “essentials of the faith” or are their “essentials” just different than what you believe them to be?

They don't hold to the essentials of Christianity…

If your “essentials” have anything to do with the list posted at the beginning of thread, you’ve added a lot of fundamentalist baggage to the Christian faith.

…and they don't even think their own theories are essential to anything.

That might just be humility.

The division already exists and it is as wide as eternity.

But there’s still time to repent.

 

[Jailminister]

Mark, You are right in what you are saying. Keep on keeping on. Remember it has always been the "religous" Bunch that have killed and persecuted God's people. The world just helps them along.

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Brother Mark,
Thank you for taking the time to write out that list. We had to seperate from a church for similar reasons.
I do wonder though about myself being involved here. There are those professing to be Christians who practice AND teach many of the anti-Christian views you mentioned. Can you help me understand why it might be good to witness to those types?

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by latterrain77:
BrianT. Why do you think that Mark's post/list is "trolling?" (i.e. rule #4). He has provided a legitimate general list of some opposing Biblical views that are topics of debate among Baptists (and other Christians too).

The title of his thread is intended to provoke, especially after yesterday when he also agreed with another poster who called other posters here "anti-christ" for disagreeing about Wal-mart's anti-discrimination policy. A moderator even commented, requesting people to edit their posts for using such terms about fellow Baptists. I do not think his participation in that thread yesterday and his creation of this thread today is coincidence, I think this thread was primarily intended to get people upset - i.e. trolling.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
I try to practice separation the way Jesus did – associating with sinners, spending time together and telling them the good news of the Kingdom.

Which is exactly what I'm doing when I come to "The Baptist Board." Therefore I am not, as you implied in your other post, failing to be separate by coming into this forum and discussing the Scriptures with infidels who claim to be Baptists. </font>[/QUOTE]I don’t count spiritual grandstanding and name-calling to be anything similar to what Jesus did when he associated with the sinners who were shunned by the Pharisees. Jesus did get pretty intense with the religious leaders, but that was for their man-made additions to the Law and their self-righteous religiousity that treated non-religious sinners with contempt.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />On the other hand, the Pharisees separated themselves from other Jews and tried to isolate and shame sinners in order to make society “pure”;. They laid out a set of rules (often based on legitimate scriptural teaching, but with many human additions that undermined their value) for proper religious behavior and chastised those who did not obey their interpretation of them.

Yes, and what does that have to do with the true Biblical doctrine of separation? Because the Pharisees set up their own rules am I not to follow God's rules? </font>[/QUOTE]You have mixed a bunch of fundamentalist baggage with some legitimate Christian teaching (as well as totally misrepresenting the views of those who disagree with you) in the list at the beginning of this thread. If that’s not setting up a bunch of man-made doctrine as “essentials”, I don’t know what is…

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The Pharisees had real issues with Jesus and his association with sinners. They accused Him of being a false teacher (where have we heard that lately?), they accused Him of having a demon, they excommunicated those who testified that Jesus was doing the works of God, and they finally conspired with the Sadducees to make false charges against Jesus, turn Him over to the Romans and demand His death.

So what? Am I not to call false teacher false teachers simply because the Pharisees falsely accused Christ of being a false teacher? </font>[/QUOTE]You need to be careful about labeling people as “false teachers” (or the current favorite – “Anti-Christ”) because God treats false accusations against His servants very seriously.

I’ve noticed you seem to have a love for theological arguments (you probably see it as “zeal”) and you often assume the worst of your opponents – it comes out in the accusations you make against them.

You have still said nothing that would indicate you have the slightest idea what the Bible actually teaches about separation for God's people.

Separation for the Christian is following the call for a holy life – a life characterized by wholehearted obedience to God, love for fellow human beings and rejection of selfish desires and passions. It is a difference in attitude and quality of life characterized by integrity, humility, joy and patience with those who disagree with you.

Within the church, separation sometimes requires that the church take redemptive disciplinary action against those who are willfully sinning against God and have refused many opportunities to repent. This extreme action against a fellow believer is to be used as a last resort.

If you disagree with my assessment, then you should explain your understanding of separation for us.

 

[Matt Black]

I propose a variation on Godwin's Law: the probability of a poster calling somone who disagrees with their POV a 'non-Christian', 'heathen','libera', 'pagan', 'unbeliever' or 'anti-Christ'in a Christian usenet discussion is directly proportional to the number of posts and the level of controversy of the OP (and tends towards 1 in the case of certain posters)

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Jailminister:
Remember it has always been the "religous" Bunch that have killed and persecuted God's people.

Very true.

But there's still time to repent.