Christians' addicted need our help

[SaggyWoman]

Paidagogos;

Have you ever gone to a Celebrate Recovery meeting?

 

[av1611jim]

I am Blessed 16;
Does RU use the 12 Steps of A.A. as its model? If it does then it is unbiblical. You can re-write A.A.'s 12 Steps all you want, but I submit to you that you cannot graft a clearly anti-christ program into the Christian church!
Jesus plainly tells us what the fruits of a corrupted tree will be. The roots of A.A. are anti-christ. Therefore, all attempts to marry Christ with Belial are vain and outright (dare I say it?) heretical and blasphemous.
Many of you are ignoring my posts. Why? Because I know what I am talking about and you don't like it. So...you cling to what you want to and ignore Scripture to your own and others' peril.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

RU does not talk about getting in touch with your higher power.

RU tells you about Jesus and that you need to repent of your sins and accept Jesus Christ as Lord of your life.

You will NOT find this in AA!!!

 

[SaggyWoman]

I couldn't tell you what the principles of AA are.

I know that with the steps of Celebrate Recovery, having walked through similar steps with issues I deal with, they prove to be wise.

 

[chipsgirl]

These programs sound like an incredible idea! I wish my church had one but we are really tiny. I'm curious how a program like that would help me with my eating disorder recovery? I'd love to give it a shot if I could find one in my area.

 

[rjprince]

Chipsgirl,

Re eating disorder, would suggest Minirth/Meier book "Love Hunger". It is geared toward complusive over-eating, but some of the principles are pretty good.

Adams would probably disagree and consider MM integrationists (mixing the Bible and pop psychology). Nonethless, they do have some material that has been helpful to many. I only have a B.A. and M.A. in Theology/Psycholgy/Counseling so I am probably not an authority on these issues.

 

[av1611jim]

For a Biblical approach to addictions/sin, go here;

www.truthaboutaddictions.org

This is the only truly Biblical approach I have seen. And! I have searched for years, because A.A. and its daughters are religous.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

[SaggyWoman]

I went to the website. I am there now.

Problems I have already.

1. KJV only. (Makes the Bible an issue)

2. It makes attacks rather against recovery religions but doesn't separate that from the ministry to those in recovery. I think the issues are separate.

I hope they are doing a good work. But they are spending a lot of effort attacking. There are a lot of people out there hurting.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by rjprince:
Chipsgirl,

Re eating disorder, would suggest Minirth/Meier book "Love Hunger". It is geared toward complusive over-eating, but some of the principles are pretty good.

Adams would probably disagree and consider MM integrationists (mixing the Bible and pop psychology). Nonethless, they do have some material that has been helpful to many. I only have a B.A. and M.A. in Theology/Psycholgy/Counseling so I am probably not an authority on these issues.

Of course, Adams would disagree! Have you ever read his books?

Minirth/Meier (perhaps it should be Minirth ßà Meier) are integrationists who give a thin Christian veneer to secular psychology. The Christian approach is to begin with theology, not coat the secular theory with Christian phrases.

From what perspective did you receive your psychology-counseling instruction? Where did you earn your degrees? The problem is that psychologists have a hard time throwing over the viewpoint, however erroneous, from which they were taught. Psychoanalysts remain psychoanalysts, behavioral psychologists remain behaviorists, etc. People have a vested interest from an investment standpoint rather than what truth is. It’s hard to give up what has cost years and dollars.

Do you know any recovering psychologists?

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by chipsgirl:
These programs sound like an incredible idea! I wish my church had one but we are really tiny. I'm curious how a program like that would help me with my eating disorder recovery? I'd love to give it a shot if I could find one in my area.

On what do you base your opinion? What do you know about these recovery programs? They promise and don't produce. Have you considered a Biblical (nouthetic) counselor?

Check out the following to find one in your area:
http://www.nanc.org/counselors/index.php

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by SaggyWoman:
Paidagogos;

Have you ever gone to a Celebrate Recovery meeting?

No and I have never been a homosexual either. Have I researched the recovery (including Celebrate Recovery) literature? Yes! Do I know psychology? Yes! Am I a student of the Bible? Yes! Do I know theology? Yes! Am I qualified to offer expert opinion on the recovery movement (both Christian and secular) and Biblical counseling? Yes!

Now, please answer these questions:
1. Do you know psychology?
2. Have you researched the literature of Biblical counseling and other critiques of the recovery movement?
3. Are you a serious Bible student with extensive study and knowledge of Scripture?
4. Do you have a working knowledge of theology?
5. Do you know the theory, background, methodology, etc. of the secular recovery movement? Of Celebrate Recovery?
6. Are you qualified to offer an informed, expert opinion?
7. Is your opinion based on Biblical principle and knowledge or emotions and feelings?

Thank you.

 

[SaggyWoman]

I didn't ask you if you were recovering from anything. I asked if you had been to a meeting.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

They promise and don't produce.

This is simply not true. We have testimonies every week, at our church, from people who attend/attended RU - got saved - and recovered from their addictions/sins (whichever word you prefer).

Why are you so full of anger? That is a sin also and maybe YOU need a recovery program?

 

[av1611jim]

Originally posted by SaggyWoman:
I went to the website. I am there now.

Problems I have already.

1. KJV only. (Makes the Bible an issue)

2. It makes attacks rather against recovery religions but doesn't separate that from the ministry to those in recovery. I think the issues are separate.

I hope they are doing a good work. But they are spending a lot of effort attacking. There are a lot of people out there hurting.

___________________________________________________


Well, when one goes LOOKING for problems, I suppose one will find them even in the vault of Fort Knox. "There is not ENOUGH gold in here!"

Saggy;
Your bias is transparent.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

[SaggyWoman]

I really wasn't looking for problems. I was trying to look at it from the standpoint of someone looking for help with addictions. All I saw was attacks at that website.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> They promise and don't produce.

This is simply not true. We have testimonies every week, at our church, from people who attend/attended RU - got saved - and recovered from their addictions/sins (whichever word you prefer).
</font>[/QUOTE]This is no proof. We, of course, must accept them at their word until time shows otherwise. Testimonials are cheap. This simply means that they believe in your program. You can get testimonials from every quack infocommercial imaginable. This is not doubting your converts individually but it a wait and see attitude toward the program. What do you say about the program if 50% fall back into their sin in five years time? If so, this is no better than the rate of people spontaneously quitting. Furthermore, the final question does not hinge upon perceived success rates, it rather depends upon being in accord with the Word of God. Evidently, you have not read or understood my posts very well. Therefore, I doubt if you know our points of disagreement even though I thought that I had pretty well articulated them cogently.

Why are you so full of anger?

I’m not full of anger although I do hate falsehood. Don’t you know the difference between being assertive and angry?

That is a sin also and maybe YOU need a recovery program?

Now, you are mixed up. This recovery thinking has you in bondage. It’s a wonder that they don’t a recovery program from recovery. If I was sinning, then I would need confession and repentance, not recovery. Can’t you see how perverted and warped this mentality is (although I think you intended it as a joke—if not, oh……my)? It’s ridiculous! Ludicrous!

BTW, I thought you were part of the non-judgmental crowd. Then, why are you judging me? It’s alright to judge your enemies—huh?

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by SaggyWoman:
I didn't ask you if you were recovering from anything. I asked if you had been to a meeting.

Should I go to a bar tonight and get drunk so that I know how it feels to be drunk? Perhaps I ought to have an affair with another woman so that I can counsel people recovering from immorality. What do you think?

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> They promise and don't produce.

This is simply not true. We have testimonies every week, at our church, from people who attend/attended RU - got saved - and recovered from their addictions/sins (whichever word you prefer).

Why are you so full of anger? That is a sin also and maybe YOU need a recovery program? </font>[/QUOTE]I got angry with my wife when she let us run out of coffee. However, I recovered from it. I’m not angry now.

When I am angry, I look like this:

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by SaggyWoman:
I didn't ask you if you were recovering from anything. I asked if you had been to a meeting.

Of course, you've read my post. However, you didn't answer a single question. Perhaps you didn't like that answers knowing that they would preempt your argument. So, you answer with another question.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

BTW, I thought you were part of the non-judgmental crowd. Then, why are you judging me?

I try to be non-judgmental, but it's hard when you are judging all the things we are trying to do to help people.

It’s alright to judge your enemies—huh?

I don't know. I don't have any known enemies (not even you).

I got angry with my wife when she let us run out of coffee. However, I recovered from it. I’m not angry now.

Don't you mean you called your anger sin, confessed it and repented of it instead of recovering from it?