God gives an explicit command to women to dress modestly, and yet I don't see the same commandment explicitly made to men. Will Scarlett et al find fault with God now?
So what is the standard of modesty? Does God have His own standard, or do we just make it up as we go along? Judging by gerald's detractors it sounds like they would say we make it up as we go along.
==The Bible does teach modesty. While its teachings focus mainly on women, modern men need to keep those teachings in mind.
My problem with Gerald's post is its sense of legalism. There is a line that we cannot cross. Modesty is one thing, legalistic puritanism is another. The Bible gives us very few directives on what to wear (or not wear). That means we have to use our brains and apply what the Bible does say. Anyone who lays down "rules", beyond what Scripture directly states, is in danger of legalism. Certain bathing suits are too revealing, but that is no reason for women (or men) to show up at the beach looking like refugees from the 17th century. Modern bathing suits can be acceptable. There are a variety of options for both women and men.
I live near the beach in small a vacation town. Do I burst into flames of lust each summer when the tourists invade our quiet little town? No. Why not? Because (a) as a general rule I, like other locals, dislike tourists and (b) I don't pay that much attention to them. Maybe it is because I have grown up around it, I don't know, but bathing suits look like clothes to me. Unless a bathing suit is just rude and inappropriate, I generally don't even notice. Generally people who are all up-tight about bathing suits, lakes, beaches, and swimming are those who live away from the beach. Those of us who live in those summer areas don't think that much of it.
I believe the verse in question regarding modesty is this:
1Ti 2:9
Likewise, {I want} women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,
1Ti 2:10
but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.
Braided hair, gold, jewelry, ect. were symbols of wealth.
This verse is saying that women should behave in a way (good works) that reveals their devotion and faith (godliness).
They should impress others with their godliness instead of with their wealth.
It has nothing to do with bikinis, although common sense and the Holy Spirit tells us that women should not be showing too much of their body because men will lust.
This verse is not talking about that and is many times taken out of context and used to support no slacks, floor lenth skirts, ect. ect.
seem to be
winning so far.
What would Jesus do?
A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
Remember the three temptations of Eve:
lust of flesh, lust of eyes, pride of life.
We still have them--daily including Sunday.
It is not possible to worship God in the flesh.
Curiously, the Amish and Mennonites do not have such problems.
There are no "skin" problems among the Moslems.
Their men have a dress code too--see what happens if a man wears bermuda shorts in a Moslem area--they will pick up stones--yep, stoning for breaking the code.
It is not difficult to find similar codes in the OT.
The NT code could be:
whether you eat or drink, whatsoever you do, do all for the glory of God.
And may I bring to your attention that in the bible, it was men who got into trouble or were warned about possible trouble with their own nakedness.
Both Adam and Eve were ashamed of their nakedness and Adam told God that he, personally, was ashamed.
Noah was drunk AND naked in his tent and Ham paid a great penalty for finding his dad in that condition and mocking him.
God gave the priests explicit directions on what garments to wear so that their nakedness would not show.
Leviticus gives instructions over and over and over not to uncover the nakedness of certain people - included are fathers and brothers and father's brothers and well as women.
In John 21:7, Peter is out fishing and he is naked. When he sees the Lord, he covers himself up and jumps into the water.
Yes, God tells women to adorn themselves modestly. But as Amy G. said, it seems to pertain more to behavior and attitude than skimpy apparel, even though I believe it pertains to both.
So, according to the bible - this modesty thing seems to go both for men and women.
This is the topic of discussion, Aaron. Not who is supposed to be modest, but what is the standard and who gets make it.
Do you not get a sense of the OP making it up as he went along?
Anything less than a full mummy wrap covered by a burka painted to look like Bea Arthur will incite lust in me, so that's my standard of modesty.
In fact, I think that should be a required costume for all Christian women.
Those burkas (sp?) that Mulim women wear didn't stop those 7 men from gang raping that 19-year-old girl 14 times now did it.
She wasn't spared from lust of the flesh even though she was covered from head to toe.
Flesh doesn't have to be bared for lust of the flesh to occur.
Granted, many times bared flesh contributes to lust, that's why modesty is important.
But isn't it already in the heart?
I'm afraid that we focus too much on forcing women into legalistic chains and ignore the heart of men, giving way to a free sin license.
Man still has difficulty with the reality of his fall and his inability to choose that which is good.
Only God can bring us out of the pit and keep us out.
The Deceiver still tempts us and we sin--because that is what our flesh likes to do. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." I John 1:8-10.
So anyone who disagrees with legalism is carnal?
I disagree with legalism, not modesty.
Since when do we need to follow a long list of personal "rules" and preferences not found in scripture?
The OP is assuming we don't know how to dress and that it's his responsibility to fix it to his standard.
(Show me where a woman had to wear a slip in the Bible!)
Also, the Amish and Mennonites and Muslims might not have "skin problems," but if you check recent history, you'll find child abuse, lust, and other sorts of ungodliness in those cultures as well.
Modest dress does not necessarily make a crime free zone.
They are called whitewashed tombs by the Lord.
That is why we have the Holy Spirit in us to guide us in all things, not Gerald's handy dandy book of what he thinks modesty is.
As said before, common sense goes a long way, and is lacking in some of the posts.