Clergy and the 10 Commandments fight

[wopik]

How do the Christian clergy feel about the 10 Commandments being taken out of some US court houses?

They don't even believe the commandments are binding! All the major denominations teach that the law is "done away," "nailed to the cross," "bondage" and "legalism!" Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy... Are you kidding? The preachers explain that away every other Sunday. So what's the beef?

 

[KenH]

The Ten Commandments represent God's moral law that has been in force since the Garden of Eden and will never cease to be in force. It is the Law of Moses that we no longer required to follow, not God's moral law that predates the Law of Moses.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Christians are to be "salt and light" to a blind and sin-darkened world. Part of the arsenal to battle these gates of hell is the precious Word of God.

Anyone civic authority that takes away the Word is hurting my God-ordained mission on earth. I'm not happy.

 

[Ben W]

Anyone who is interested in keeping "the Ten Moral Commandments" might be interested in this website.

http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org/

 

[David Mark]

I personally love the commandments. Nevertheless, I love them after I believe on The Christ. With regard to myself, without faith in The Christ, I guess I could only imagine a lesser part in the Lake of Fire than the most immoral. I don't want any part in the Lake of Fire!

I don't mind anyone displaying the Ten Commandments, but I don't like the ambiguity of the message. Being the most moral, lawful person ever without faith in The Christ is useless.

What I would rather see in a court house is a simple message of God sending his son to die for sinners. There are plenty of more defendable scriptures to quote or put into bronze that point to The Christ.

I consider displaying the Ten Commandments as form of preaching. Is this what Paul and the Apostles preached to the unsaved? I don't perceive that at all, they preached Christ and Him crucified for the sins of the World. Anything moral was built on top of the foundation of faith in The Christ.

I am set to preach the Christ as savior first then morality. Not morality first.

I don't blame folks for being upset. If you tried to preach morality to me apart from the Christ, I would upset with you also.

Dave.

 

[Bartimaeus]

Originally posted by wopik:
How do the Christian clergy feel about the 10 Commandments being taken out of some US court houses?

They don't even believe the commandments are binding! All the major denominations teach that the law is "done away," "nailed to the cross," "bondage" and "legalism!" Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy... Are you kidding? The preachers explain that away every other Sunday. So what's the beef?

wopik, In your idea of faith and practice, what position am I in (before God)if I say that I have trusted in the blood sacrifice of Christ for my salvation and yet I understand the feasts and commandments and do not keep the feasts and the sabbath?
Thanks ----Bart

 

[Daniel David]

So what if the 10 commandments go away. They were for a particular people for a particular time.

The moral law of God is transcendant.

I prefer to worship and follow Christ over Moses.

Christ said that the law and prophets hang on two laws:

1. Love God with all of your being
2. Love your neighbor as yourself

That puts these two laws over and above the 10 commandments. Note that if you read these verses in the Old Testament, you don't see anything about them being the greatest commandments.

Christ took it upon himself to introduce a new law.

The O.T. was for the nation of Israel (saved and unsaved).

The N.T. is for believers.

Note that Moses said not to murder. Christ said to not even hate.

Covenant theologs have Christ as the greatest expositor of Moses. Christians have Christ as the new law giver.

The sermon on the Mount for covenant folks is really just the Talmud of Jesus.

Question for those who believe the 10 commandments are the moral law:

did God write on the heart of every person (including pagans per Romans 1-2) that they should set aside the 7th day as one of rest? I didn't think so.

The 10 commandments is the basis for Moses' law only.

 

[KenH]

I would encourage anyone interested in this subject to read an excellent book by Richard C. Barcellos entitled In Defense of the Decalogue: A Critique of New Covenant Theology.

 

[TWade]

Great posts. All of them.

The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul says Psalm 19.

The Law is used to lead lost folks to Jesus Christ. The law is light (Proverbs 6:23) that shines upon our sin and fallen nature. It gives us an awareness of our sin. It is a schoolmaster which brings us to the Lord Jesus Christ, says Galatians 3:24.

The law is an integral part of the message.

Should the 10 commandments be removed from state houses? I don't know. Personally, I would like to see them stay.

 

[TWade]

I am set to preach the Christ as savior first then morality. Not morality first.

I believe it is the opposite. Preach the law first to show them their depravity, then preach Jesus Christ crucified as their only hope and answer.

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by KenH:
I would encourage anyone interested in this subject to read an excellent book by Richard C. Barcellos entitled In Defense of the Decalogue: A Critique of New Covenant Theology.

I would also encourage people to read the book. Then, go to www.soundofgrace.com and read their chapter by chapter review of the book and demonstrate why Covenant theology is skewed theology.

NCT is superior to Moses worshipers.

 

[dawna]

in Galatians 3:24-26 this about the law

" Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by Faith. But after that faith is come , we are no longer under a schoolmaster. for ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

The purpose of the law was to show us we need a saviour

 

[dawna]

and that savoiur is Jesus Christ. john 3:16 says For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whosoever belives in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by wopik:
How do the Christian clergy feel about the 10 Commandments being taken out of some US court houses?

Exodus 20:4-6 (nKJV):

"You shall not make for yourself a carved image,
or any likeness of anything that is in heaven
above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
that is in the water under the earth;
5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve
them. For I, the Lord your God, am
a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers
on the children to the third and fourth generations
of those who hate Me,
6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love
Me and keep My commandments.

IMHO the idol moved from the Supreme Court of Alabama
violated this SECOND COMMANDMENT. Here the State
of Alabama was corrent to remove this heathen idol.
Amen!

This carved image of the stones upon which the
very hand of God wrote the original copy of the
Ten Commandments is IMHO an illegal idol.
IMHO God may visit even the third and fourth generation
of these Alabamians with ill against the iniquity
of those who promote these idoltrous abominations
before God.

 

[Daniel David]

That would be something else, now that I think of it.

If the 10 commandments = God's moral law, then the law is already written on the hearts of pagans.

That makes the New Covenant promise of God writing upon the hearts of his people a lie. Nice work covenantalists. I am just not willing to call God a liar.

 

[wopik]

Paul wrote something interesting to the predominatly gentile church in Corinth:

"Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing; but obeying the commandments of God is everything" (1Corinthians 7:19).

 

[Bartimaeus]

WOPIK!

ANSWER MY QUESTION. STILL WAITING.
Thanks ----Bart

 

[HankD]

wopik, In your idea of faith and practice, what position am I in (before God)if I say that I have trusted in the blood sacrifice of Christ for my salvation and yet I understand the feasts and commandments and do not keep the feasts and the sabbath?
Thanks ----Bart

Bart, wopik isn't answering, but here's mine:

You were DEAD in trespasses and sins, once the Law slays you it has nothing more to say to you.

Having faith in Christ and His blood atonement has made you alive in HIM.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Sabbath
Christ IS our Sabbath rest:

Matthew 11
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Hebrews 4
9 There remaineth therefore a rest (sabbatismos) to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
If the 10 commandments = God's moral law, then the law is already written on the hearts of pagans... I am just not willing to call God a liar.

Romans 2:14-15 (ESV)
[14] For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. [15] They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them

 

[Daniel David]

Ken answer my question about the sabbath. Did pagans know to keep one day aside for worship to God? I didn't think so either. So much for covenant theology.