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Colossians 2, the "nailed it to his cross", what was "it"?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by One Baptism, Jul 3, 2017.

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  1. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Colossians 2, the "nailed it to his cross", what was "it"?

    In order to find out, we need to look at the context of the passage, and then consider it prayerfully, line upon line:

    Colossians 2:1 KJB - For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and [for] them at Laodicea, and [for] as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;

    Colossians 2:2 KJB - That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

    Colossians 2:3 KJB - In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

    Colossians 2:4 KJB - And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

    Colossians 2:5 KJB - For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

    Colossians 2:6 KJB - As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him:

    Colossians 2:7 KJB - Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

    Colossians 2:8 KJB - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    Colossians 2:9 KJB - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    Colossians 2:10 KJB - And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

    Colossians 2:11 KJB - In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

    Colossians 2:12 KJB - Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

    Colossians 2:13 KJB - And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

    Colossians 2:14 KJB - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    Colossians 2:15 KJB - [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    Colossians 2:16 KJB - Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

    Colossians 2:17 KJB - Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

    Colossians 2:18 KJB - Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

    Colossians 2:19 KJB - And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

    Colossians 2:20 KJB - Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

    Colossians 2:21 KJB - (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

    Colossians 2:22 KJB - Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

    Colossians 2:23 KJB - Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
    Now that we have the passage, in its context, let's consider some questions, and see if we cannot come to the same conclusions.

    The questions:

    [1] Is Paul quoting from the Old Testament anywhere in this passage in relation to Colossians 2:14-17 KJB, and if so, from where?

    There are several texts Paul is utilizing from the Old Testament, and especially from Psalms 98:1-3 KJB in regards Colossians 2:14-17 KJB

    Consider again, Colossians 2:15:

    Colossians 2:15 KJB - [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.​

    Now, consider Psalms 98:1-3:

    [[A Psalm.]] O sing unto the LORD a new song; for he hath done marvellous things: his right hand, and his holy arm, hath gotten him the victory. Psalms 98:1

    The LORD hath made known his salvation: his righteousness hath he openly shewed in the sight of the heathen. Psalms 98:2

    He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God. Psalms 98:3

    The English is plain enough, but even if one wanted to consider the underlying Greek [since people like to play the Greek/Hebrew game] of Colossians 2:15, "ἐδειγμάτισεν" ["made a shew of them openly"] is also similarly used in Matthew 1:19 and Hebrews 6:6, as "παραδειγματίσαι" ["a publick example"] and "παραδειγματίζοντας" ["to an open shame"] respectively.

    The two sets of phrases,

    [1] "χειρογραφον τοις δογμασιν" and

    [2] "ἐδειγμάτισεν"​

    are interesting.

    Also, the word “spoiled”, in the underlying Greek is “απεκδυσαμενος”, and is used again in Colossians 3:9, where it reads “have put off”, meaning to “strip away” [remove] as a garment being laid aside, removed, de-robed, unclothed, etc.

    The words “the principalities and the powers” in the underlying Greek is “τας αρχας και τας εξουσιας”, which are also used in Ephesians 3:10, 6:12; Colossians 1:16; Titus 3:1. These may refer to heavenly intelligences [unfallen or fallen] or earthly intelligences [mankind - righteous or wicked].

    Additionally, “τας αρχας και τας εξουσιας” is also found in Luke 12:11, as “[unto] magistrates and powers”.

    Furthermore, “τη αρχη και τη εξουσια” is found in Luke 20:20, as “the power and authority”.

    In Romans 8:38, we read slightly differently, “ουτε αρχαι ουτε δυναμεις” which is “nor principalities, nor powers”.

    In 1 Corinthians 15:24, it is given as “αρχην και πασαν εξουσιαν και δυναμιν”, which is “all rule and all authority and power”.

    In Ephesians 1:21, we read “πασης αρχης και εξουσιας και δυναμεως”, which is “all principality, and power, and might”.

    In Colossians 2:10, we read “πασης αρχης και εξουσιας”, which is “all principality and power”.

    Jude 1:6, also mentions the “αρχην”, the Arch-Offices [estates].​

    [2] What, specifically, is the “handwriting of ordinances” [v. 14], that Paul is speaking of, and is he again referring to the Old Testament? and if so, does he utilize the same language anywhere else in the NT, and if so, where?
     
  2. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    What do we see of this "hand" "writ[ing]" of "ordinances"?

    By the “hand of Moses”: Leviticus 8:36, 10:11, 26:46; Numbers 4:37,45,49, 9:23, 10:13, 15:23, 16:40, 27:23, 36:13; Joshua 14:2, 20:2, 21:2,8, 22:9; Judges 3:4; 1 Kings 8:53,56; 2 Chronicles 33:8, 35:6; Nehemiah 9:14.

    Leviticus 8:36 KJB So Aaron and his sons did all things which the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses.

    Leviticus 10:11 KJB And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

    Leviticus 26:46 KJB These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

    Numbers 4:37 KJB These were they that were numbered of the families of the Kohathites, all that might do service in the tabernacle of the congregation, which Moses and Aaron did number according to the commandment of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

    Numbers 4:45 KJB These be those that were numbered of the families of the sons of Merari, whom Moses and Aaron numbered according to the word of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

    Numbers 4:49 KJB According to the commandment of the LORD they were numbered by the hand of Moses, every one according to his service, and according to his burden: thus were they numbered of him, as the LORD commanded Moses.

    Numbers 9:23 KJB At the commandment of the LORD they rested in the tents, and at the commandment of the LORD they journeyed: they kept the charge of the LORD, at the commandment of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

    Numbers 10:13 KJB And they first took their journey according to the commandment of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

    Numbers 15:23 KJB Even all that the LORD hath commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day that the LORD commanded Moses, and henceforward among your generations;

    Numbers 16:40 KJB To be a memorial unto the children of Israel, that no stranger, which is not of the seed of Aaron, come near to offer incense before the LORD; that he be not as Korah, and as his company: as the LORD said to him by the hand of Moses.

    Numbers 27:23 KJB And he laid his hands upon him, and gave him a charge, as the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses.

    Numbers 36:13 KJB These are the commandments and the judgments, which the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses unto the children of Israel in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho.

    Joshua 14:2 KJB By lot was their inheritance, as the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses, for the nine tribes, and for the half tribe.

    Joshua 20:2 KJB Speak to the children of Israel, saying, Appoint out for you cities of refuge, whereof I spake unto you by the hand of Moses:

    Joshua 21:2 KJB And they spake unto them at Shiloh in the land of Canaan, saying, The LORD commanded by the hand of Moses to give us cities to dwell in, with the suburbs thereof for our cattle.

    Joshua 21:8 KJB And the children of Israel gave by lot unto the Levites these cities with their suburbs, as the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses.

    Joshua 22:9 KJB And the children of Reuben and the children of Gad and the half tribe of Manasseh returned, and departed from the children of Israel out of Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan, to go unto the country of Gilead, to the land of their possession, whereof they were possessed, according to the word of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

    Judges 3:4 KJB And they were to prove Israel by them, to know whether they would hearken unto the commandments of the LORD, which he commanded their fathers by the hand of Moses.

    1 Kings 8:53 KJB For thou didst separate them from among all the people of the earth, to be thine inheritance, as thou spakest by the hand of Moses thy servant, when thou broughtest our fathers out of Egypt, O Lord GOD.

    1 Kings 8:56 KJB Blessed be the LORD, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by the hand of Moses his servant.

    2 Chronicles 33:8 KJB Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

    2 Chronicles 35:6 KJB So kill the passover, and sanctify yourselves, and prepare your brethren, that they may do according to the word of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

    Nehemiah 9:14 KJB And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:​
     
  3. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Do we see that the "book of the Law" "of Moses", written by "Moses", given them by God to obey "all", placed outside [in the side] of the ark as a "witness against" ...

    Deuteronomy 31:26 KJB - Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.";

    Colossians 2:14 "handwriting of ordinances";

    Ephesians 2:15 "the law of commandments contained in ordinances";

    Hebrews 9:1 "... also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.";

    Hebrews 9:10 "... meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances ...";

    Ezekiel 43:18 "... These are the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon."

    Luke 1:6 "... walking in all the commandments and ordinances ...";

    Numbers 9:12 "They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it.";

    2 Chronicles 33:8 "... to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses."​

    … against them because of their promises [Exodus 19 and Exodus 24]. This is not the same things as the Ten Commandments written by God Himself, placed in the ark itself.

    The Greek, trans. lit., [again for those that like to play the Greek game]:

    exaleiyaV to kaq hmwn ceirografon toiV dogmasin o hn upenantion hmin kai auto hrken ek tou mesou proshlwsaV auto tw staurw​

    The words "cheirografon toiV dogmasin" never mean "certificate of debt" in scripture [and that is not a literal equivalency, and even more than a 'dynamic', but truly someone's own private [incorrect] paraphrase]

    cheirografon – G5498 N-ASN

    toiV – G3588 T-DPN

    dogmasin – G1378 N-DPN​

    The word "cheirografon" literally means "cheiro" [hand] & "grafon" [writing]:

    See "cheiro" [translated as “hand” 89 times or “hands” 90 times, per KJC] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=G5495&t=KJB

    See "grafon" [translated as “written” 121 times, or “write” 50 times, or “wrote” 21 times, or “describeth” 1 time or “writing” 1 time, per KJC] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1125&t=KJB

    And do not merely take any concordance definition, but simply utilize the concordance to look at all the Bible passages to see how the word is defined and used in scripture itself [as per Isaiah 28:10; 1 Corinthians 2:13 KJB, etc]. Concordance, Lexicons, even Dictionaries can all be incorrect on a scriptural word, since those sources bring in definitions from outside of scripture, such as Greek [pagan] literature, etc [See sister Gail Riplinger's monumental works, “New Age Bible Versions” & also “In Awe of thy Word”, & also “Hazardous Materials”, among others].

    The word "toiV" can have several uses in scripture [KJB], and in this instance means "of" - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3588&t=KJB

    The word "dogmasin" literally means "dogma" [see Websters 1828 for helpful def., but always remember to define scripture by scripture] which comes to be:


    The related word in the very same passage of Colossians 2, is "dogmatizesthe":

    Colossians 2:20 KJB Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,​

    Yet we know that the Ten Commandments are not of this earth/world, not carnal, but of Heaven, spiritual:

    Exodus 20:22 KJB And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

    Romans 7:14 KJB For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

    [3] What is the definition of sin [1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23, etc] that Paul utilizes in the very context?
     
  4. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Colossians 2:11 KJB In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

    Colossians 2:12 KJB Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

    Colossians 2:13 KJB And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses:

    See the like parallel, in Ephesians 2:

    Ephesians 2:1 KJB And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    Ephesians 2:2 KJB Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    Ephesians 2:3 KJB Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.​

    Thus the similar phrases and relation to them all as found in:

    [1] Colossians 2:14, “ordinances”,

    [2] Ephesians 2:15, “in ordinances”

    [3] Hebrews 9:1,10, “carnal ordinances”​

    Also similar language is used in:

    [1] Colossians 2:17, ”of things to come”

    [2] Ephesians 2:7, “ages to come”

    [3] Hebrews 9:11, “good things to come”.​

    In quoting Colossians 2:14, as many do:

    Colossians 2:14 KJB - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;​

    The context reveals, not the blotting out of sins, but of the blotting out of the "handwriting of ordinances".

    [sub Q.] Where is the word sin used here in regards to the "blotting out" in vs 14?

    It is not found at all in vs 14 and the "blotting out" does not reference the sins of vs 13, but is specifically identified in vs 14, the "handwriting of ordinances".

    The word "sins" is found in vs 11,13, but it speaks only of sins forgiven [covered], which may be demonstrated upon request is not the same thing as sins "blotted out", for it is obvious even at the first, that sins which are blotted out, need not be covered, and that which is covered, must yet be dealt with totally to be blotted out. According to Psalms 77:13 KJB, the sanctuary is a complete system of salvation/redemption, not merely a single act, but a process with multiple parts needing to be accomplished/finished, like as unto a building, laying a foundation [Cross, the foundation was finished, the cornerstone laid], then building with stones, and finally the last portion. More on this in a later portion.

    Furthermore in vs 20, we see the word "ordinances" again used in connection with "worldly" human things, "the rudiments of the world" and "subject to ordinances", which are listed in vs 21-23, – 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

    What are these handwritten ordinances and where may they be found in scripture? As already noted before, these are the very "ordinances" that may be found in Ephesians 2:15 and in Hebrews 9 and in the OT itself:

    Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace; Ephesians 2:15

    Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. Hebrews 9:1

    [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation. Hebrews 9:10

    These are the carnal ordinances, even the law of commandments in ordinances, even the handwritten ordinances [by Moses] imposed upon Israel back in the books of Moses. It is not anyone ones sins here, for these "ordinances" were for the "worldly sanctuary" to do its service, and for sacrifices, etc, see also Ezekiel 43:18:

    And he said unto me, Son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; These [are] the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon. Ezekiel 43:18

    Luke 1:6 makes mention again of these, as other passages:

    Luke 1:6 "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."

    Numbers 9:12 "They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it."

    2 Chronicles 33:8 "... take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses."​

    These refer to things, even as found in Numbers 9:3 KJB:

    Numbers 9:3 KJB In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it.​

    In fact, when looking at the context of Colossians 2, in the handwritten [by Moses] “ordinances” thereof, we read nothing of the Ten Commandments, but only of things pertaining to the earthly sanctuary and its services, in carnal things, that came afterwards under the Levitical priesthood.

    See also for further detail:


    and more, but what was against the "us"?

    Deuteronomy 31:26 KJB Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.​

    And why was it a witness against the "thee"? Because if they broke their promise, the "curse" would come upon them. More on this "curse" in a bit.

    Because of their promise they had made, which turned out to be faulty promises. They broke their side of the covenant made in Exodus 19 and 24, the words Moses are written upon parchment [scroll, lambskin, etc] and sprinkled with blood.

    Their agreement, the promises "to do all...we will do" [Exodus 19 & 24; “fault with them”; Hebrews 8:8 KJB], their covenant, which they brake, was nailed to the cross. In so nullifying that "old", the 'New' [really the Everlasting] was ratified by the blood of Jesus the true sacrifice.

    [4] Where does Paul get the words "... against us ... contrary to us..." from, in the context of the passages he is quoting from in the Old Testament, and what does it mean there?
     
  5. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Deuteronomy 31:26 KJB - Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

    Deuteronomy 31:28 KJB - Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.

    Deuteronomy 30:19 KJB - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

    Deuteronomy 8:19 KJB - And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.

    Leviticus 26:21 KJB - And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.

    2 Kings 17:15 KJB And they rejected his statutes, and his covenant that he made with their fathers, and his testimonies which he testified against them; and they followed vanity, and became vain, and went after the heathen that were round about them, concerning whom the LORD had charged them, that they should not do like them.

    Nehemiah 9:34 KJB Neither have our kings, our princes, our priests, nor our fathers, kept thy law, nor hearkened unto thy commandments and thy testimonies, wherewith thou didst testify against them.​

    Etc.

    The Law of God, the Ten Commandments, are the Law of Life [to transgress them is to die; Romans 6:23 KJB], and not ever against the promises, but are always and ever in harmony with them, being the very foundation of His government, and in fact, each of the Ten Commandments is a promise of God, in the New Covenant, that He will fulfill in those who have faith in Him to do it:

    Galatians 3:21 KJB Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.​

    [5] In verse 16 there is a list of "ordinances" that are found given in that order [and other], in the Old Testament, what are they referring to there, and where is Paul quoting from?
     
  6. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Colossians 2:16 KJB Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:​

    Paul is quoting from (you will want to look up that word “solemnities”):

    Ezekiel 45:17 KJB And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.​

    [6] Is there a significance to the specific ordering that Paul utilizes of those "ordinances"?, In other words, is there a specific time frame involved for each item in the list [for ex. daily, seasonally, monthly, yearly [or of years, etc]]
     
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Far, far too complicated. I bet no one reads your stuff.

    The 'handwriting of ordinances' (or 'requirements' NKJV) that was against us' refers to the 10 Commandments, written by God Himself (Deuteronomy 5:22). They are against us because we can't keep them, but Christ has nailed them to the cross with tetelestai stamped across them. What does tetelestai mean? It was our Lord's cry from the cross, 'It is finished!' It is the perfect tense of the Greek word teleo, which can mean to finish, to accomplish or to pay (cf. Matthew 17:24). So the commandments are nailed to the cross with the words 'It is paid' written on them. Our sins are forgiven.

    This does not mean that we are not to keep the commandments of God; of course we are! But the commandments are no longer our righteousness but our rule as we serve our beloved Saviour who has 'forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the certificate of debt [NKJV margin] that was against us.'
     
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  8. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    There is. The order is given as:

    [1] "daily" [in meat, or in drink [offerings]],
    [2] "seasonally" [or in respect of an holyday; ie feast days of seasons, Spring, Fall]
    [3] "monthly" [of the new moon]
    [4] "annually, yearly, and 7th year and 50th Year" ["of the sabbath [days]" [plural]].​

    In Colossians 2:16 KJB the word [days] was added as a help text by the translators since the word in the Greek for Sabbath [days] is a Noun Genitive Plural Neuter, being sabbatwn Strong's Concordance G4521 N-GPN. So the text is not speaking of a single sabbath, but many, and not speaking of every sabbath in scripture [KJB], because it only deals with the specific “ordinances” “hand” written by Moses. To know which sabbaths it is speaking of we must look at the immediate context [cited above].

    In the [context] we see "handwriting of ordinances". These "ordinances" are not referencing the "spiritual" Ten Commandments. Rather these "handwriting of ordinances" are in reference to the "carnal ordinances" associated with the "worldly sanctuary" given under the "levitical priesthood" for "divine service". The Ten Commandments were given before there ever was a "worldly sanctuary" or "levitical priesthood" [this is not to say that the levites did not exist, it is saying that they were not yet ordained into "levitical priesthood"]. We can see this further in Ephesians and Hebrews:

    Ephesians 2:15 KJB Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;​

    Again, not the Ten Commandments, but rather that which was commanded "in ordinances". They which were given for "divine service" in a "worldly sanctuary" which was patterned after the Heavenly and True Tabernacle which "the Lord pitched and not man".

    Hebrews 9:1 KJB Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

    Hebrews 9:6 KJB Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service [of God].​

    [1.] "in meat, or in drink" [offerings] [daily/continual] compare to:

    Hebrews 9:10 KJB [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.

    Hebrews 10:8 KJB Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law;​

    Which Law dealt with sacrifices?

    The "spiritual" Ten Commandments spoken from "Heaven" dealing with the "conscience of sins"? or rather "the commandments [contained] in ordinances", those "carnal ordinances" for "divine service" and a "worldy sanctuary"?

    [2.] "or in respect of an holyday" holy [feast] day; based upon the seasons, "seasonal"]. The word in the Greek for "holyday" is εορτης and means "a feast or festival" [Strong's Concordance]. These were "seasonal".

    Leviticus 23:4 KJB These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.​

    A list of them may be found in Leviticus 23 and elsewhere [ie, Leviticus 23:44, etc]:

    Spring Feasts:

    Passover: Leviticus 23:5 [Jesus dies AD 31, First Month - Abib/Nisan 14th, the 6th Day, 3 PM]

    Feast of Unleavened Bread: Leviticus 23:6-8 [Jesus in the Tomb, Abib/Nisan 15th, the 7th Day]

    Feast of Firstfruits [Wave Sheaf]: Leviticus 23:10-14 [Jesus resurrected, Abib/Nisan 16th, 1st day]

    Pentecost [Feast of Weeks]: Leviticus 23:15-22 [Jesus, in the Holy Place, pouring of the Holy Spirit, Acts 1-3, etc Revelation 5:6, etc]​

    Long Summer

    Fall Feasts:

    Feast Of Trumpets: Leviticus 23:24-25 [Jesus, announcing coming Judgment, about to move, the bell is heard, 1833/4, Miller goes forward, Advent movement, etc]

    Day Of Atonement: Leviticus 23:27-32 [Jesus in the Most Holy Place, 1843/44, specifically Oct 22 1844, the bell is heard, Jesus and Father moved from Holy to Most Holy in Heavenly Sanctuary]

    Feast of Booths/Tabernacles/Ingathering: Leviticus 23:34-43 [Harvest, and on into Millennium and then into eternity]​

    Yet, moreso specifically, we see that these “heorte” [Feast] refers to the Three Specific feasts that were in their “seasons”:

    [1] the feast of Unleavened Bread,

    [2] the feast of Weeks [Pentecost],

    [3] the feast of Tabernacles, wherein they had to come up to Jerusalem:

    Exodus 23:14 KJB - Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year.

    Exodus 23:17 KJB - Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.

    Deuteronomy 16:16 KJB - Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:

    1 Kings 9:25 KJB - And three times in a year did Solomon offer burnt offerings and peace offerings upon the altar which he built unto the LORD, and he burnt incense upon the altar that [was] before the LORD. So he finished the house.

    2 Chronicles 8:13 KJB - Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, [even] in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.
     
  9. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    [3.] "or of the new moon" [monthly, based upon phases of the moon]:

    Genesis 1:14 KJB And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

    Genesis 1:16 KJB And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.​

    See also, that there are “ordinances” of the moon, were sacrifices, blowing trumpets, etc:

    Numbers 28:11 KJB And in the beginnings of your months ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, seven lambs of the first year without spot;

    Numbers 28:12 KJB And three tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, for one bullock; and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, for one ram;

    Numbers 28:13 KJB And a several tenth deal of flour mingled with oil for a meat offering unto one lamb; for a burnt offering of a sweet savour, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD.

    Numbers 28:14 KJB And their drink offerings shall be half an hin of wine unto a bullock, and the third part of an hin unto a ram, and a fourth part of an hin unto a lamb: this is the burnt offering of every month throughout the months of the year.

    Numbers 28:15 KJB And one kid of the goats for a sin offering unto the LORD shall be offered, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

    Jeremiah 31:35 KJB Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

    Jeremiah 31:36 KJB If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

    Jeremiah 33:25 KJB Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not withday and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;

    Psalms 81:3 KJB Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day.

    Psalms 81:4 KJB For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the God of Jacob.

    Psalms 81:5 KJB This he ordained in Joseph for a testimony, when he went out through the land of Egypt: where I heard a language that I understood not.

    Ezra 3:5 KJB And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.

    Ezekiel 45:17 KJB And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    Ezekiel 46:6 KJB And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish.​

    The New Moons, were but the type of a greater antitype:

    New Moon to Another:

    Isaiah 66:22 KJB For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

    Isaiah 66:23 KJB And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.​

    Indeed, consider:

    Ezekiel 47:12 KJB And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

    Revelation 2:7 KJB - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

    Revelation 22:2 KJB - In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    Revelation 22:14 KJB - Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.​

    [7] In verse 16, the verse says, "...of the sabbath [days]", which is plural in the very Greek itself, as well as English in the KJB, what "sabbath days" then is Paul referring to specifically, and how may we know?
     
  10. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    [4.] "or of the sabbath [days]" [plural, multiple yearly sabbaths, the typological [not memorial, as Creation], shadow, yearly, 7th year and 50th years given under the levitical priesthood]

    [1] The Yearly sabbaths that came based upon the phases of the moon: Leviticus 23:4 and onward, each associated with the "worldly sanctuary" and "divine service" under the "levitical priesthood" and "carnal ordinances", all being "shadows" of "good things to come".

    [2] The 7th year sabbath: Leviticus 25:2-7

    Leviticus 25:2 KJB Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD.

    Leviticus 25:3 KJB Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof;

    Leviticus 25:4 KJB But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.

    Leviticus 25:5 KJB That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.

    Leviticus 25:6 KJB And the sabbath of the land shall be meat for you; for thee, and for thy servant, and for thy maid, and for thy hired servant, and for thy stranger that sojourneth with thee,

    Leviticus 25:7 KJB And for thy cattle, and for the beast that are in thy land, shall all the increase thereof be meat.
    [3] The 50th year sabbath: Leviticus 25:7-17; being ending in the Day of Atonement, called the sabbath of sabbaths.

    Leviticus 25:7 KJB And for thy cattle, and for the beast that are in thy land, shall all the increase thereof be meat.

    Leviticus 25:8 KJB And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.

    Leviticus 25:9 KJB Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.

    Leviticus 25:10 KJB And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.

    Leviticus 25:11 KJB A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.

    Leviticus 25:12 KJB For it is the jubile; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field.

    Leviticus 25:13 KJB In the year of this jubile ye shall return every man unto his possession.

    Leviticus 25:14 KJB And if thou sell ought unto thy neighbour, or buyest ought of thy neighbour's hand, ye shall not oppress one another:

    Leviticus 25:15 KJB According to the number of years after the jubile thou shalt buy of thy neighbour, and according unto the number of years of the fruits he shall sell unto thee:

    Leviticus 25:16 KJB According to the multitude of years thou shalt increase the price thereof, and according to the fewness of years thou shalt diminish the price of it: for according to the number of the years of the fruits doth he sell unto thee.

    Leviticus 25:17 KJB Ye shall not therefore oppress one another; but thou shalt fear thy God: for I am the LORD your God.
    Therefore, these things, the “ordinances” associated with these things listed were but “shadow” to be fulfilled in the ministry of Jesus Christ, not merely upon earth, upon also in Heaven.

    Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

    Colossians 2:17 KJB Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

    Ephesians 2:7 KJB That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

    Ephesians 2:15 KJB Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    Ephesians 2:16 KJB And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

    Hebrews 9:11 KJB But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

    Hebrews 10:1 KJB For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
    The section of Colossians 2:14-17, exists between Colossians 2:8 and Colossians 2:20-22:

    Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

    Colossians 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

    Colossians 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
    Related passages:

    Matthew 15:9 KJB But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    Mark 7:7 KJB Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    Titus 1:14 KJB Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.​

    The Ten Commandments, the spiritual [Romans 7:14 KJB] Law ever [always] point out God's perfect character, written by God Himself, with His own finger/Holy Spirit [], on Tables of Stone [now the Heart], place inside of the Ark [representing the Heart of God, even Jesus, Psalms 40:8], beneath the Mercy Seat, as God's standard of righteousness, and thus transgression [falling short of them as they are in the Life of Christ] of them is always sin.

    The "ordinances", in those “carnal”, “worldly” things of “service”, handwritten in the Book of the Law, by Moses, placed in the side of the ark, as a witness against Israel, included sacrifices, offerings, blowing of trumpets, etc, which pointed out the Saviour and His ministry [earthly and Heavenly] to come because of sin, and who would save us from sin, which is transgression of His Law, as per 1 John 3:4, etc.
    [8] In verse 17, what are the two contrasting words "shadow" and "body" referring to, and does the New Testament utilize this same word elsewhere, and if so, in what way? Additionally, were they of things past [iow, a memorial, a remembrance], or of future things, "...of things to come."?
     
  11. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    God's Ten Commandments are not "shadow", they are "Light":

    Proverbs 6:23 KJB For the commandment [is] a lamp; and the law [is] light; and reproofs of instruction [are] the way of life:

    Isaiah 8:20 KJB To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

    Isaiah 51:4 KJB Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.​

    The Fourth Commandment itself, even points to the past of a world without sin, and in the Saviour who is without sin, as a memorial [Remember, what the LORD did in the 7th Day], in both Creation and in the Salvation of Jesus Christ, and it will also be so in the New Heaven and New Earth, as the forever memorial of Christ's redemption completed, for He will have saved His people from their sin/s:

    Exodus 20:8 KJB Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    Exodus 20:9 KJB Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

    Exodus 20:10 KJB - But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:

    Exodus 20:11 KJB - For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.​

    Yet, we can know that the Passover, and its sacrifices, etc, was the shadow pointing forward to the True:

    1 Corinthians 5:7 KJB “... even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us ...”​

    John the Baptist understood the type/reality, that Jesus [The Light of the World, the Sun of Righteousness] was the Anti-typical [fulfillment/reality, that which is the substance, casting the shadow, not the shadow itself]:

    John 1:29 KJB “... Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God ..."

    John 1:36 KJB “And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God ...” ​

    Thus, what we have in Colossians 2:16, is a list, of [1] “daily”, [2] “seasonally” [festally, the specific times in the year, fall, spring], [3] “monthly” [12 times, average, a year] and [4] “yearly and of years”, thus an increasing order, and having nothing whatsoever to do with the “weekly” Holy 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy God, the Holy Commandment:

    2 Peter 2:21 KJB For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
    Now, let's take a look at that curse, who became that curse for us, and what was to cease according to Daniel 9.
     
  12. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    There is a glaring contradiction in your reply, but I do not think that you are able to see it presently. Please allow me to show this, in kindness:

    [1]. "... They [The Ten Commandments] are against us because we can't keep them ..."

    [2.] "... This does not mean that we are not to keep the commandments of God; of course we are! ..."

    That is a text book definition of contradiction.

    Please let me know which it is, it cannot be both simultaneously. One cannot keep the Ten Commandments by not keeping them.

    John 14:15 KJB, citing Exodus 20:6 KJB.

    Now, it was said, "It is finished!"

    Of course it is, but let me ask you, in kindness, "What was 'Finished', what is the 'it' that finished?"

    Please be specific, citing scripture [KJB].

    I know what was specifically "finished", and after your reply to the question, I would like to share with you, line upon line.
     
  13. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I don't think you'll find there is any contradiction, but please carry on.
    What I was speaking of is the Gospel. Perhaps as an SDA follower you do not quite understand it?
    1. We are to keep God's commandments. God threatens judgement upon those who fail to do so (eg. Leviticus 26:14ff).
    2. In our own strength we cannot keep God's commandments (eg. Jeremiah 31:32; Acts 15:10; Romans 3:8-20).
    So we read Romans 1:18-32. But:
    3. In Jeremiah 31:31-34 and repeated in Hebrews 8:7-12. In the New Covenant in Christ's blood (Luke 22:20), God's people have been redeemed by Christ and born again by the Spirit. They have God's righteous laws written on their hearts and they delight to keep them (Psalm 1:2; 40:8; most of Psalm 119; Romans 6:16-18). Christians still do not keep the commandments perfectly (Romans 7:22-25; 1 John 1:8-10), but Christ did, and His perfectly righteousness and obedience is imputed to those who trust in Him (1 Corinthians 1:30; 2 Corinthians 5:21).
    Brother, you use the translation you like best and I will do likewise :)
    Really? I wonder.
    Here is something I wrote a while back. ‘It is Finished!’
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, as the great truth of the Cross given to paul was that God in Christ Himself has now taken on and away all of the sin debt due to God for our sins, and that we are now free in Him to live for God, not by looking to keep the Law and merit salvation, but by trusting in jesus and living now by the power of the Holy spirit residing in us!
     
  15. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    The antecedent of "it" in verse 14 is the "certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us"; i.e. the moral law of God as codified in the Decalogue. The doctrine of penal substitution teaches that Christ satisfied our sin debt through His death on the Cross (Heb.10:10-18; 1 Pet. 2:24).
     
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    For some reason part of my last post did not print. I wanted to say, In Jeremiah 31:31-34 and repeated in Hebrews 8:7-12, God promises to write His law on our hearts. This is not the dietary, judicial or ceremonial laws which were fulfilled in Christ and have disappeared with the Old Covenant (Hebrews 8:13), but the Moral Law, summed up in the Decalogue and epitomized in the Golden Rule.
     
  18. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    The Law of Moses was given to Israel by God to show them they could not keep a law. It was a schoolmaster. See Galatians 3:24. The Law was not given to the Gentiles--they could not have kept it either.

    Jesus fulfilled the Law and nailed it to His Cross.

    We are under Grace. Trying to keep a religious code will keep one separated from God and headed for the pit.
    See Ephesians 2:8-10 and Titus3:5.

    Now what?

    Even so come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James

    Bro. James
     
  19. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    There was perfect understanding of what was stated, but the contradiction remains in its wholeness, as stated before:

    "... [1]. "... They [The Ten Commandments] are against us because we can't keep them ..."

    [2.] "... This does not mean that we are not to keep the commandments of God; of course we are! ..."

    That is a text book definition of contradiction.

    Please let me know which it is, it cannot be both simultaneously. One cannot keep the Ten Commandments by not keeping them.

    John 14:15 KJB, citing Exodus 20:6 KJB. ..."​

    Notice again, if you will please, the contradictory statements once more, as given in the further reply:

    "... 1. We are to keep God's commandments. God threatens judgement upon those who fail to do so (eg. Leviticus 26:14ff).

    2. In our own strength we cannot keep God's commandments (eg. Jeremiah 31:32; Acts 15:10; Romans 3:8-20).

    So we read Romans 1:18-32. But:

    3. In Jeremiah 31:31-34 and repeated in Hebrews 8:7-12. In the New Covenant in Christ's blood (Luke 22:20), God's people have been redeemed by Christ and born again by the Spirit. They have God's righteous laws written on their hearts and they delight to keep them (Psalm 1:2; 40:8; most of Psalm 119; Romans 6:16-18). ..."​

    All of that is perfectly understood, for as Seventh-day Adventists do not teach that anyone is Justified by any Law, [see Isaiah 45:25 KJB] it is a false straw-man foisted upon us , over and over, no matter how many times it is clearly explained in perfect scriptural [KJB] detail to the transgressors of God's Law [Exodus 20:1-17 KJB].

    All of the above perfectly understood. Yet, it was then immediately followed with the contradiction:

    "... Christians still do not keep the commandments ..."​

    The word "perfectly" [whether added to the end or not] is irrelevant, since all sinners do not keep the commandments of God, "perfectly". If one does not actually keep the Commandments, even with 'Christ Jesus', what good is such so-called 'salvation'?; it is good for nothing, but in name only, a vanity, a useless doctrine, for it could save nobody from anything, in any real permanence. All sinners [which are they which transgress God's Commandments; 1 John 3:4 KJB], transgress God's Law [Exodus 20:1-17 KJB], as per Romans 3:23, 5:12; Psalms 14:3, 53:3; Romans 3:10,12, etc.

    It was stated:

    " ... What I was speaking of is the Gospel. ..."​

    I also am speaking of the True and Everlasting Gospel, which is found in Genesis 3:15; Matthew 1:21; John 1:29,36; Revelation 12:17, 14:6-7, etc. We are to be saved "from" all our "sins", not in them, not even one. Christ's righteousness is not a cloak for sin, not even one. All sin [all transgression of God's Law] must be "overcome" permanently, in the here and now by the indwelling Christ Jesus, through the power of the abiding Holy Spirit. God has provided such infinite overcoming strength in Christ Jesus Life and Death [Revelation 12:10; Romans 5:6 KJB] No stain, no wrinkle, no evil thoughts, no wrong words or actions, etc. Keeping all of God's Law "perfectly", "even as" Jesus "walked" [1 John 2:1-7,29], which is "without sin", even "perfectly" in "obedience".

    It was said:

    "... Perhaps as an SDA follower you do not quite understand it? ..."​

    I understand "perfectly", even Genesis 2:1-3 KJB. First-day Christians are in an imperfect state, a state of beginnings, yet without form and void, incomplete, not filled up yet, not brought to completion, having no real rest. A true [there are many false, tares] Seventh-day Adventist, is brought to completion in Christ Jesus, having living faith, in the exceeding great and precious promises, overcoming everything brought to their attention by the Holy Spirit, walking perfectly in all His Commandments [John 14:15; Exodus 20:6; Exodus 20:1-17 KJB].

    It was said:

    "... but Christ did, and His perfectly righteousness and obedience is imputed to those who trust in Him (1 Corinthians 1:30; 2 Corinthians 5:21). ..."​

    Imputed righteousness is only half the Gospel. Imparted righteousness is the second half. It is not enough to be declared and made free of all "past" [Romans 3:25 KJB] sins, one must then take up the promises of God, and overcome all future sin/s [Ephesians 2:8-10 KJB, etc]

    It was stated:

    "... Brother, you use the translation you like best and I will do likewise :) ..."​

    That is a misunderstanding, but not for this thread, only one is God's word in English, the others may contain some of God's word. For instance, turn to Hebrews 9:12 NKJV, or most other so-called translations of the 'original' Koine Greek [no one of our days has seen 'the original' to begin with] into English, and there is a word that is dangerously and heretically added, "Most" [agia], that is not found in any extant manuscripts, codices, papyrii, etc in any language, Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Syriac, Egyptian, Coptic, Bohairic, Sahidic, etc, etc. I could specifically list and detail the serious errors and heresies of the so-called NKJV [which one?, there are differing ones, btw] , and others. But that is for another thread.

    It was then said [in regards my statements about "It is fininshed!"]:

    "... Really? I wonder. ..."​

    Yes, really. What is interesting, is that I have demonstrated from scripture [KJB] that the phrase "... Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances ..." have nothing to do with the Ten Commandments, [being nailed to the cross, etc] or a sin debt, but in the reply, it was merely asserted, without documented evidence to be a 'sin record'.

    First of all, "sin" cannot be "blotted out" until the Day of Atonement, in the "Fall" season, even the 10th day of the 7th Month, not the 14th day of the first month in the "Spring" season. Secondly, an high priest is needful for that purpose, and Jesus was not made High priest until after His ascension, at Pentecost, when again their were "twelve" [Revelation 5:6; Acts 1-3; Psalms 133:1-3 KJB, etc], the final being "numbered". Thirdly, the Ark of the Covenant and the Altar of Incense [and the four horns thereof] were especially needed for this service [all types must be fulfilled in their proper timing, and season]. These were not present at the Cross, which is but the altar of sacrifice. The true Ark [and the Original Ten Commandments therein] and Altar of Incense were [even are] in Heaven before God. Fourthly, one needs the Most Holy Place to have been entered by that High Priest. This was not done at Calvary, nor the ascension.

    Baptists, among many other evangelicals, all practice 'necromancy', through what they preach is a 'gospel', inclusive with the paganisitic and Romanistic platonism of 'immortal soul/spirit' theology, but many are simply and sincerely ignorant of this fact, even as I was before. Allow me to explain, and you will see what I am saying is true.

    Romans 7, Paul is a lost man, not a saved man, not yet delivered. 1 John 1:8, is found in context of vs 7, "...cleanseth us from all sin.", not some sin [1 John 3:4 KJB], and see 1 John 1:10, which parallels vs 8.

    Now, let us move to the "It is finished!", and what was actually finnished, since the sanctuary is a whole system of Truth [Psalms 77:13 KJB], each part needing to be finished [see Revelation; Daniel; Hebrews, etc]. 'The cross' only laid the Foundation, only that part was "finished'.
     
  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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