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COMMON-ground?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, Jul 24, 2011.

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  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    I think that view would be very consistent with that of John Calvin and modern Calvinists such as MacArthur. Would you also affirm that God desires all to be saved?
     
    #21 Skandelon, Jul 25, 2011
  2. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    God desires all to be saved in my position in that jesus DID die to atone for all people, that fulfills His divine Love...

    problem is that in His Holiness, God cannot accpept people just the way there are, being sinners, those born into Adam and sin natures

    So law decrees none get saved, none deserve it, His love allows Him to extend Grace towards those He has chosen to shopw His mercy upon...

    See me next week to see if my understanding stayed same!
     
    #22 JesusFan, Jul 25, 2011
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Maybe you can explain his love for Easu (Sarcasm) but I'd like to here your thoughts on that scripture.
     
    #23 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 25, 2011
  4. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Sure, this was unpacked in THIS THREAD a while back, and I think you'll see that ArchAngel represents more of the Classical Calvinistic position of men like MacArthur, while some others represent more of the "extreme" view of men like Pink.

    NOTE: When reading that OP keep in mind, "I'm not arguing that God did save Esau, we don't know. It never says anything about his being saved or not, which is really the point I'm attempting to make. Instead, the focus is on God's choice to use Jacob for noble purposes...to be the nation that ushers in the Messiah and carries God's revelation to man. One is chosen for "noble purposes" while the other for "common use" as Paul explains later. Does this certainly mean that Esau didn't have the ability to have faith in God? I argue that it doesn't because there are those in Israel who are blinded (common use) who later are provoked by envy and saved (rm 11:14).


    I hope that helps, but feel free to follow up with comments or questions about that here.
     
    #24 Skandelon, Jul 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2011
  5. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    God’s Love for the world which He created is so great that He gave His Only Child to redeem the creatures He has made, for whososever will believe in His act of Love. Do you see how one can run into error in trying to compare that you have a “specific” greater love for your children to God’s Holy Love being that He sacrificed His Own? God promised His Only Begotten for the world from the very foundation of it, freely and not because a single one of His creatures deserved it…would you be willing to make that kind of sacrifice, give your most loved and only child who is perfect and without sin to show your love to the world so that they could believe (Key question – In what do we believe?)…or is God’s Love so great it is beyond making such a comparison of loving His own more as we would be inclined to do? Jesus willingly died in faith of His Father’s Love for the world…In Christ; through His faith of that great love we are saved!

    God freely sacrificed His Only Child in Love; in that we get a glimpse of how great His Love is and how it is beyond such earthly comparisons. That is the light we are to preach…a message of God’s Love, there ain’t no darkness in that Love. Amen
     
    #25 Benjamin, Jul 25, 2011
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    In your thinking process, did Christ truly save anyone?
     
    #26 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 25, 2011
  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    When I witness to an individual (unsaved), I sometimes tell them:

    There is no one in this world that God loves anymore than you.

    Whether the person gets saved or not, I believe the statement is true.

    "For God so loved the world..."
     
    #27 DHK, Jul 25, 2011
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    This only proves that Calvinists have a difference of opinion. Any Calvinist could of told you that. So to answer your original OP of yesterday.....no, we dont all agree with your statement. And that doesnt make anybody a Hyper Calvinist either. Frankly Im disappointed that you would use that terminology to label the brethren.
     
    #28 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 25, 2011
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    .... to kinda butter them up so to speak, get them on your side I guess. That angle never worked on me though. do you also ask them if they died today, where would you go ...?

    Why to Heaven of course you silly.....you just told me God loves me exceedingly.......:thumbsup:
     
    #29 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 25, 2011
  10. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    I acknowledged that point in the OP, remember? That is why I asked for people to realize that we CAN and SHOULD have a common ground on this subject.

    Yep, just like MacArthur and the others I quoted did. Yet, I still got much disagreement, as if they didn't really believe what I said they did.

    I already knew that, which was the point of OP. To call for consideration of the common ground with the mainstream views.

    Go back and read the post where that term was introduced and my follow up comments. You will see that I quoted other reformed believers who use this label and you will see that I even question that label due to its anti-evangelistic connotation. I believe I was very fair in my approach on this point.

    It was MacArthur, Phil Johson, Hendryx and others who said this view was "hyper" or tended toward that direction.

    Either way, it makes the valid point that there is much biblical evidence to support the view of God's universal love and desire since even many mainstream Calvinist acknowledge it and accept it.
     
    #30 Skandelon, Jul 25, 2011
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    No, I told you God loves everyone equally the same. He is no respecter of persons. Whether or not the person has a religious background is irrelevant. If he is not one of the elect at this point God loves him just the same.

    In other words whether or not he is elect (we don't know) God loves all people equally. Thus my statement remains true.
     
    #31 DHK, Jul 25, 2011
  12. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Are there any passages suggesting God hates the wicked?

    - Peace
     
    #32 preacher4truth, Jul 25, 2011
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Then is love that does not save truly love?
     
    #33 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 25, 2011
  14. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Amen Brother.....shucking the corn.
     
    #34 quantumfaith, Jul 25, 2011
  15. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
    #35 quantumfaith, Jul 25, 2011
  16. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    We err when we pit the Love of God vrs the Holiness of God...

    Cross of Christ is where both meet, and are perfectly united....

    That people are not saved, whose fault is that, theirs or God?

    Either God refused to give enough Love and Grace towards them, or else their will overpowered His love towards them...

    Either way, tough love!
     
    #36 JesusFan, Jul 25, 2011
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Is that like ....mucking the stalls? :laugh:

    Maybe slopping the hogs ROFL
     
    #37 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 25, 2011
  18. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I love all my children just the same, and always will.
    If one of them goes astray should I love him any less?
     
    #38 DHK, Jul 25, 2011
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Really? Thats your explanition....tough love!?! :laugh: Seriously :laugh:
     
    #39 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 25, 2011
  20. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Nope..,. just that IF we fall on either side of this question, we will run into "tough love" as either we will be forced to have a God who Loves, but can be denied by human willpower, or who else determines who gets saved, period and is more Allah like than Yahweh like!
     
    #40 JesusFan, Jul 25, 2011
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