Featured Consider Jack and Joe - who is worse?

God doesn't have to save anyone or drag no one to His Son He draws us with lovingkindnees not drag us. If man doesn't' want to come He leaves them to them selves. He said follow me not I will drag you. I praise God for Him chosing an elect to spread the gospel and whosoever believes will be included when they hear the Gospel of their salvation having belIeved. Without the Elect doing what Christ sent them out to do no one would be saved.

Dragged is a wrong translation for that verse.

 

The question is not who is more deserving of hell, but who is deserving of heaven--which is absolutely NO one.

As was stated, we are not born "enemies of God", but we become that way by our sinful lives. It's not a matter of who is the most sinful, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23

 

I don't think so.


draw
   [draw] Show IPA verb, drew, drawn, draw·ing, noun

verb (used with object)
1.
to cause to move in a particular direction by or as if by a pulling force; pull; drag (often followed by along, away, in, out, or off ).

 

We can play tennis but the truth, it isn't drag with lovingkindnees it is draw. Draw is the best word out of what that word means that fits with that scripture. The translators knew what he was doing.

 

Ive never experienced dragging (perhaps others have) but I know from personal experience that the HS does pursue you & in my case a long time until I understood that my greatest sin was my sin of unbelief. I was then ashamed & humbled .....and then very surprised that He would save a wretch like me (sound familiar ???) :thumbs:

 

The question, to be blunt, is stupid. Who is condemning the baby? Are you? I certainly am not! The one who condemned the child is the mother who indulged in crack while pregnant.

 

That is the teaching of Scripture Winman. If you don't like it take it to the Lord in prayer. Perhaps you can get a "do over"! In the meantime while waiting for that "do over" you should meditate on the general condition of mankind as revealed to the Apostle Paul by God:

Romans 1:19-25
19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

In this passage God through Paul does not talk of the total depravity of mankind. That is addressed in other Scripture. He, God, does show that all mankind will sin. You can blame it on a natural tendency to sin or whatever but God tells us just like it is!

I don't do you?

I am not in the judging God business Winamn. I will leave that up to you. Because of my concern for you I will present the Scripture posted earlier:

 

This is simple as I see scrIptual drawn with loving kindness

b.To cause to move in a given direction or to a given position, as by leading: The teacher drew the children into the room to see the decorations.

Matthew 11:29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

He doesn't force us to take on His yoke

 

Bless your heart Amy.G, You say so well in a sentence or two what some of us try to say in a page or so!

 

Because we would not come willingly, period. I believe a little differently than some Calvinists, that's why I really don't like labels. God has to drag us toward Him or we wouldn't even consider it, and he does it with the gospel and the Holy Spirit. The difference between me and typical Calvinists, is that once enlightened and the process of being dragged has started, a man can still go into apostasy and reject Christ. I know people say that if you can choose to reject Christ, you can choose to accept Him, but I say not without God starting the process.

 

No one will come on our own will. We can't even trust it. We most trust Jesus over our own will and say as Jesus not my will but your will be done. We have to deny our own will and this is done by the work of the Holy Spirit by the word of Spirit and life to our free agency.

 

:thumbs::thumbs:

:thumbs::thumbs:

Another "outta the park" homer.....

 

Yes...I know you do not understand it yet:thumbs:

However you are not being truthful with the sinner...sort of reminds me of this;
14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.


We have authority to tell sinners that Jesus died to save sinners.

the apostles did not tell sinners Christ died for you....no where is it to be found. They did not say God loves you. The love of God is found In Christ, not outside of Christ. God loves sinners in Christ...everyone who believes.

 

I have never denied that all men will sin, I have said that repeatedly.

Why would you post scripture that does not prove your position? (I am talking about the part of your quote I highlighted). Why wouldn't you post this supposed scripture that says man is born in a depraved condition that cannot possibly choose for Christ? You would win your argument right there, yet no Calvinist/Reformed EVER shows scripture that says this.

I didn't think you would ever condemn a baby that is born addicted to drugs because his mother used drugs and the baby inherited this depraved condition, yet you believe God would condemn men for being born in a depraved condition inherited from Adam. Your own innate sense of justice tells you it is wrong to condemn a person for another person's sins, yet you believe that is what God does.

I am not asking you to judge God, I am asking you to judge your theology. Your own innate sense of right and wrong and justice tells you it is wrong to condemn someone for the sins another committed, yet your theology teaches this is what God does. I would seriously question such a theology.

 

The drawing used in the verses show it was effectual...not how it is done.:thumbs:

 

What kind of nonsense is this? If Jesus died to save sinners, then he died to save everyone, because all men are sinners.

 

The scripture teaches us who it is effectual to and who it is not.

Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

The scripture before Christ even prepares our way and what to do when the Lord comes.

Proverbs 3:
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[Or will direct your paths]

7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the Lord and shun evil.

These are the ones the Father has given to His Son and He is pleased to do. In Christ we was chosen simple and easy past, present, and future from alpha to omega

 

The apostle Paul did not think it was nonsense...but gospel truth!

The only nonsense here is your statement....

God does not have to save any sinner. That he has elected to save a multitude of sinners is purely His mercy as none of us deserve it.
The bible has a teaching about election...those are the sinners God has chosen to save:thumbs: