How could Constantine The Great's Vision from GOD at Saxa Rubra be "chi-rho" when he and his army spoke Latin???
zara ...:smilewinkgrin:
Constantine's Vision
Discussion in 'History Forum' started by zara, Oct 25, 2012.
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I just pinged Matt Black, BB's resident Constantine Historian....he is that because he tracks his pedigree back thru time to being related. Thats cause he is British & you know those people! :rolleyes: :smilewinkgrin:
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Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Cheers! The 'chi-rho' symbol (roughly similar to a Roman alphabet 'P' overlaying an 'X') would have been intelligible to Constantine and many of his men, despite its Greek origins, if it was used at all* because Constantine came from the eastern part of the Empire where Greek was the dominant language, and many of his officers, despite maybe being native Latin speakers, would have received some kind of education in classical Greek.
*I say this because we only have Eusebius' (later) account that the 'chi-rho' symbol was used; the more contemporary Lactantius describes it more as a simple stauragram ie: a cross-shape with the top elongated into a Roman alphabet 'P'. -
The Symbol from GOD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I_and_Christianity
.. Eusebius of Caesarea and other Christian sources record that Constantine experienced a dramatic event in 312 at the Battle of Milvian Bridge, after which Constantine claimed the emperorship in the West. According to these sources, Constantine looked up to the sun before the battle and saw a cross of light above it, and with it the Greek words "Ἐν Τούτῳ Νίκα" ("by this, win!", often rendered in the Latin "in hoc signo vinces"). Constantine commanded his troops to adorn their shields with a Christian symbol (the Chi-Rho), and thereafter they were victorious.
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............................................................................Constantine's Vision
zara -
Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Yeah, an old Connie is my 55th great-grandfather. The family's gone down in its status since then of course!
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Again, for my own edification ole "C" was half Welsh on his Mommas side & there were many different types of Mercenaries fighting in his army including Welsh tribes. right!
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Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Yes, 'Old King Cole' was supposedly his maternal grandfather.
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Are you saying that the symbol was in Welsh?? .....:smilewinkgrin:
Constantine and his father matured as Emperors and Military Commanders in York (Eboracum) England. His English Army voted him to be "Caesar" in 306 AD ish and made it stick by GOD's "Sign" throughout the Roman Empire.
zara ... -
Eutropius was his grandfather.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantius_ChlorusEarly
Early career
Born in Dardania,[6] the Historia Augusta claimed Constantius was the son of Eutropius, a noble from northern Dardania, in the province of Moesia Superior, and Claudia, a niece of the emperors Claudius II and Quintillus.[7] Modern historians suspect this maternal connection to be a genealogical fabrication created by his son Constantine I,[8] and that his family were of humble origins.[2] His father, however, might have been the brother of Eutropia, wife of Maximian.
zara -
Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Flavius Eutropius was his father's father, Coel his mother's father.
I'll keep the cigar and smoke it, thanks! -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
A Welsh Succession of Primitive Baptist Faith and Practice
By
Elder Michael N. Ivey
The first Christian emperor was a Welshman. Though of Roman descent, Constantine was also Welsh. His mother was Helena the daughter of Coelgodebog Earl of Glouchester, his father Constantius, the Roman ruler of Britain. As a youth, Constantine resided in Wales, where his mother instructed him in the ways of Christ. Concerning Helena's dedication to Christ, Cathcart rote, "She was a devoted Christian, and there is some reason for supposing that she exerted and influence over both her husband and son in favor of christians, which prompted them to the toleration of their opinions." Thus, it was by a Welshman that Christianity drew the attention of all the world. However, it is a saying with English historians, and here it very accurately applies; when princes engage in religion they either do to much for it or too much against it. -
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Perhaps returning the OP...;)
It is curious that he chose this sign, or that this sign came to him (I'm dubious as the second,) as the Christian symbol most appropriate would have been the ICHTHYS which was more popular of the Christians. Regardles, I believe the point remains that he, and many in his army, would have known Greek. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/helena.htm
Helena, mother of Constantine I, called the Great, was born of humble parents in the Roman province of Moesia, a land on the western shore of the Black Sea. Constantine's father, Constantius Chlorus, who had risen to the throne by way of military success, was also a native of that region. According to St. Ambrose, Helena was an inn-keeper when Constantius lifted her from her lowly position and made her his consort. There exists a legend that she was the daughter of a British king, but there is no historical foundation for this. It is, however, true that Constantius spent some time in Britain putting down a rebellion among the Picts and Scots, and died at York, but it is thought that he had cast off Helena and taken a new wife long before this time. On the death of his father, the young Constantine brought his mother to live at court at Byzantium, the capital of the Eastern Empire. He honored her by giving her the Roman title of Augusta and also had coins struck bearing her image.
zara ......:smilewinkgrin: -
zara -
Constantine didn't choose the sign, God did. ...ICHTHYS ..Is a fish symbol and I don't believe to used until after the sixth century in Britain??
I must disagree here, Latin or british Keltic were spoken by he and his "English" Army. During his early adolescent years his mother, Helena, was exiled to Trier and had little influence on Constantine's language.
zara -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
As a side note# 2: I never pay attention to anything a RC source (EWTN) tells me.....they always manipulate the truth. -
The Brit's should be very proud.
zara -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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