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Featured DGOETTP part two

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by percho, Feb 28, 2022.

  1. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    There is no back or forward in eternity.
     
  2. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    And the great dragon ---, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan - From Rev 12:9 sans irrelevant words
    Now the serpent - From Gen 3:1
    To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God - From Acts 26

    Are all of those emboldened speaking of the same entity? Is that entity associated with darkness?

    And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. Gen 1:2 1st sentence.

    Where do you believe that entity was at the moment of Gen 1:2? 1 John 3:8 says the devil was a sinner from the beginning. At the moment of Gen 1:2 do you believe the devil already is sinning? At the moment of Gen 1:2 was the Son of God going to be manifested because the devil is sinning from the beginning?

    At the very moment of Gen 1:2 is man going to be required in order for God to do this? Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    Did the devil who is sinning from the beginning need destroying at the moment in time of Gen 1:2?

    If yes how was it going to be accomplished? If no please explain why not?

    Is, through death, how we are redeemed?
    Is, through death, how the devil is destroyed? How are the, works, of the devil destroyed?
     
    #62 percho, Mar 2, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
  3. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Active Member

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    Actually yes it is

    God told Adam and Eve, Of all the trees in the garden, you may eat. But the one tree. you may not eat. If you do you will suffer consequences.

    Adam and ever were free to chose to obey or disobey.

    Jesus also told Jerusalem. He wanted to gather them together as a mother hen, But they were unwilling..

    if there is no free will. John 3 16 in fact much of john is nonsense. Because we can't chose to believe or work for the food which endures to eternal life. or to ask for the water flowing to eternal life etc etc.

    Its there. You just have to be open
     
  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    My questions are:
    When the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

    Was the devil already sinning?
    Did he need to be dealt with?

    One more question.

    Why did God call that which he had spoke out of darkness to shine, light, "that good," and separate the light from the darkness?

    God is light and in him is no darkness at all.

    Does no one believe that is the very same light and darkness spoken of in Acts 26:18 ?
     
  5. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to purpose. Rom 8:28
    'Known from the ages to God are all His works; Acts 15:18

    And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

    What is God going to do and why is he going to do what he does?

    I Shall Be Who I Shall Be
    Tell them, I Shall Be, sent me unto you.
    I AM

    Son of Man? Son of God?
     
  6. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Let me rephrase . . . ever and anon the cry of the noncalvinist is, why doth God yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will? Romans 9:19
     
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Reformed theology doeth! :Geek
     
  8. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    So Eve coerced Adam to eat? Here is that found in Scripture?

    Sounds made up to me.
     
  9. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    It would really help if you would simply state the point you're trying to make.

    What do you think?

    It sounds like you're saying that Creation and the fall of man was a remedy for the sin and evil works of the fallen angels, done 'prior' (if we can conceive of time where there is no time) to Creation, and that is not so. Creation was initiative, not reactive.

    All that was made, whether or not its creation is described in Genesis, was made for the glorification of the Son. ( Colossians 1:6 ) This was the field in which He did His Work, which was always His Work, by which He purchased a bride, and through which He merited a Name above all names, and for which He ascended to the throne and received all power and authority in Heaven, and in earth.

    God is Love, and there is no greater Love than that a man lay down His life for His friends. How else could the love of God be manifest, than in the Passion of Christ? There is no greater expression thereof. When we are raised from the dead, we will not bear in our glorified bodies the marks of our injuries and sicknesses. Jesus bears the marks of the nails and of the spears, because they are marks of His identity, and the marks of His love.

    The Cross was the reason God created the heavens and the earth.

    The origin of evil is a mystery. It's vain and foolish to speculate about things that are not revealed. We can only accept the fact that is/was there in the beginning, that God is not the author of it, and that He bent it to serve His will, and that it will be destroyed. In fact, it already is destroyed, it just has yet to be revealed.

    Yes, through the death of Christ, Hebrews 2:14
     
    #69 Aaron, Mar 2, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
  10. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    The only remotely accurate thing you've said in this thread.
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    You're no Baptist. This is the manifesto of a kook, and I have neither the time nor desire to comb through this cultic drivel.

    So 1) pick one or two points that you think are the strongest for which you would like a response. And 2) support your reasoning.

    And 3) Are you watching a lot of Kenneth Copeland?
     
  12. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    So you're saying it sprang from His creation as He knew it would. That's exactly what I'm saying. The only thing I'm saying different is that He incorporated it into His plan, which was His plan from eternity. That no more makes God the author sin than you saying He just reacted to it.
     
  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    A perfect example of your philosophy of free will.
    Let's consider this. Adam and Eve break God's laws and God allows them to do this so that sin imprisons Adam and Eve, bringing death. No matter what Adam and Eve will for themselves, they cannot escape sin, which has become their master. From that point on, Adam and Eve must have faith in a Redeemer who would come to ransom them from their chains. Every offspring of Adam and Eve are also born in slavery under Sin as their master. Every person must look forward in faith to the time when the Redeemer will come. Their only hope is in their faith being their justification.
    There is no amount of willpower that can save them. No freedom of the will that can unlock the chains of sin. Only the Redeemer can unlock those chains and the Redeemer must choose to unlock the chains.
    Now, let's go farther and see that all humans are, by nature, in rebellion against their Redeemer. Given any freedom of will, they will, 100% of the time, choose some created object over the Creator (Read Romans 1). They will never seek God (Read Romans 3).
    So, unless you imagine yourself to be a sinless Adam, you are a dead man walking with zero free will.

    Do you have any other philosophies you wish to promote.
     
  14. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    No, it is not the same light and darkness.

    In Genesis 1 we have the question, "which came first the light or the lights in the sky?" Like the chicken and egg conundrum.

    The chicken came first. But the light came first before there were physical sources of light. Satan was not a separate creation, and the angels are the stars so the angels along with Satan were created on day 4.
     
  15. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Active Member

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    If you are promoting fatalism. That Adam had no choice, and no free will, that he sinned because God planned it. Then yes you are saying God is the author of sin.

    The Bible says no one who is tempted can say that temptation can come from God. God did not tempt adam. Adam was tempted by the woman and the thought that Satan may be right and God was wrong. He failed due to lack of faith and selfishness. Due to free will
     
  16. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Active Member

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    You forgot one thing

    Did adam ask to have God look for them? Did he not blame shift and try to blame eve?

    Did God not cover their nakedness? Did they stop him? Did God force them to take those clothes? Did God force Abel to offer from the flock? Did God force Cain to offer from his garden?

    Free will is all over the place.

    You can not have a relationship apart from free will. All you would have is a dictatorship. And the one who is forced to love would be a puppet..
     
  17. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Since when has God's Word been that hard to understand? Perhaps Baptist have gotten too wrapped up in human philosophy?
     
  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Again

    1) pick one or two points that you think are the strongest for which you would like a response.

    And 2) support your reasoning.

    And 3) Are you watching a lot of Kenneth Copeland?

    And 4)Do you incorporate rattle snakes in your worship services?
     
  19. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Whatever.

    No one said that God tempted Adam. Adam was tempted of the Devil.

    Adam was made good. Can a good tree bring forth evil fruit? Then he was corrupted by a lie. Can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit?

    Who let the Devil into the Garden?
     
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I note that for being "all over the place" you have nothing in scripture, other than an attempt to look at Adam...before sin made him a slave.
    Your post perfectly shows you falling on philosophy as you attempt to argue that humans would be puppets, if your philosophy isn't correct.
    Are slaves, who are imprisoned in their confines, puppets? No. Do they have freedom to do whatever they will? Not at all.
    The Bible tells us that we were slaves to sin. This means...no freedom. No free will.
    Read Romans 6.
     
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