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Featured Did Christ Atone for ALL humans?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Robert William, Mar 4, 2015.

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  1. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    Right. There's really only two choices from that point. Universalism (which is unbiblical) and Calvinism (which is biblical).
     
    #301 robustheologian, Mar 27, 2015
  2. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
    #302 convicted1, Mar 27, 2015
  3. Robert William

    Robert William Member
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    How about this one, God caused two bears to slaughter 42 little children for calling His prophet baldy. Did those little children choose that?

    2Ki 2:22 So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spake.
    2Ki 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    2Ki 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    2Ki 2:25 And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria.

    And what about the thousands of babies God burned alive with sulfur???? Do you think it's ok for humans to burn babies to death? YHWH does what He wants.

    And what about the thousands of babies God drowned in the flood???? Do you think it's ok for humans to drown babies to death? YHWH does what He wants.

    Are you starting to get the picture? God is not like us, He does what He wants and is not to be questioned.
     
    #303 Robert William, Mar 27, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  4. Robert William

    Robert William Member
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    If God does not coerce or go against a dead mans nature or his so called free will, it's over, he is cooked.

    All that writing and you did not answer brother Joseph's questions. http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2205118&postcount=279
     
    #304 Robert William, Mar 27, 2015
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  5. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    According to your theory, Hitler obeyed the will of God.

    Then why should he go to the Hell?

    He must receive the Crown of Obedience.

    Don't misunderstand the Foreknowledge of God as the indefinite human will.

    God foreknew about the human wills, human disasters, etc. then He react acording to the reaction of the human beings.

    In that, eventually God-man cooperate each other as they react each other.

    God didn't cause the cruelty to His Son, but He knew that human race would do the cruelty to the Righteous, then He placed His Son right there in order to save the whole race of Adams.

    Then all the sins of the world were atoned at the Cross.

    No single sin was left unatoned at the Cross.

    God is not cruel in sending the billions of unbelievers because they have chosen the rejection of the Truth that Jesus died for their sins atoning their sins at the Cross. They go to the Hell not because they committed a lot of sins but because they didn't believe ( John 16:9).


    Eliyahu
     
    #305 Eliyahu, Mar 27, 2015
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    the Bible statements on Atonement - includes the "Day of Atonement" that God describes in Lev 16 - where we find the work of CHRIST - both in the "Lamb of God" (The "Lord's Goat" - the "Sin offering" of Lev 16) and also the work of Christ as High Priest (also affirmed by Paul in Heb 8:1).

    BOTH of Christ's works for us -- as sin offering AND as High Priest - are included in the Bible concept of Atonement.

    So that as the NIV said in 1John 2:2 - on the cross Christ completed the "Atoning Sacrifice" the blood sacrifice - that provides payment for sin "For OUR sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" - 1John 2:2 NIV

    Which is the Arminian POV affirmed in the Bible.

    But the WHOLE WORLD is not saved because each person must personally embrace Christ and benefit from His work as our High Priest as we find in Heb 8, 9 and 10 - or they do not benefit from that completed "Atoning Sacrifice" at the cross.


    I would never argue that anyone in hell has received atonement for sins.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #306 BobRyan, Mar 27, 2015
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    My point is that even the wicked are not dead - and their hearts can be hardened. You cannot harden the heart of a dead man.

    My point is not that Pharaoh was a saved saint that hardened his heart against the Will of God - rather he was a lost person that hardened his heart showing that the bogus argument that the dead cannot do anything is misapplied to the lost - they can harden their hearts against God.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #307 BobRyan, Mar 27, 2015
  8. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    You don't consider that there is a certain Limit to what God can do, because of His Own Attributes, not by others.

    God cannot cheat, God cannot contradict Himself, God cannot coerce the people because they are not robots. God cannot forgive sinners without punishing their sins.

    God could foresee the human disasters, but didn't help or rescue them, because there might have been certain reasons which we do not know.

    Foreknowledge doesn't mean that God doesn't do anything, the Will of God works too in reaction to the human behaviors or environment.

    If the children didn't mock Elisha the Man of God, they wouldn't have been killed.

    Here is the providence of God.

    God-Man cooperate or conflict each other.

    Eliyahu
     
    #308 Eliyahu, Mar 27, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    "God sent His Son to be the Savior of the WORLD" 1John 4:14.
    Not "The savior throughout the world".

    "HE is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins (Christians) and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

    NOT "For sins in different places throughout the world"

    Calvinism requires more scripture "bending" than Arminians are willing to swallow. :)
     
    #309 BobRyan, Mar 27, 2015
  10. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    <<<Did Christ Atone for ALL humans?>>>

    If He did and scarcely any or just many get saved, his atonement was a complete failure or He saves some regardless its effectiveness or rather ineffectiveness.
     
    #310 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Mar 27, 2015
  11. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Whose sins were not atoned at the Cross?

    Has anyone answered on this?

    Eliyahu
     
    #311 Eliyahu, Mar 27, 2015
  12. Robert William

    Robert William Member
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    Make up your mind, now you are saying Christ did not atone for all humans!!!!
     
    #312 Robert William, Mar 27, 2015
  13. Robert William

    Robert William Member
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    All the goats, only the predestined sheep were atoned for. Think man, if Jesus atoned for all humans why would He say "I don't pray for the world"?

    Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
    Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
    Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
    Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
    Joh 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
    Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
    Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
    Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
    Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
    Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
    Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
    Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
    Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
    Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
    Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
    Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
    Joh 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
    Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
     
    #313 Robert William, Mar 27, 2015
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  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Please start another thread if you so desire.
    This one has exceeded its limit.
     
    #314 DHK, Mar 27, 2015
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