Where is it that God says He "wills" all to be saved?
If He willed it wouldnt that mean that it will be done?
If you are speaking from 2 Peter 3:9 it doesnt say God "wills" but my ESV translation says God "wishes." Those are not the same word.
Did Christ Die Only for the Elect
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Crabtownboy, Jan 26, 2009.
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I said nothing, and the Scripture I posted said nothing, about the true believer being unable to sin.
The passage from Ephesians is not out of context but amplifies the Scripture in Ephesians 1:3-7
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Nothing here about pre regenerate faith; simply that we are chosen, predestinated unto the adoption children by Jesus Christ, and made accepted in the beloved who is Jesus Christ.
The Apostle Paul makes the same point in Romans 8:28-30:
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Nothing about pre regenerate faith here. Only the saving activity of God.
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It was dealing with salvation and that the passage is not intended to be seen as a step by step but that both santification and faith result in salvation.
Also, of course sanctification is used for more that spiritual grouth but that was not my argument, mine pertained to setting aside not growth. The passage in Acts 26 regarding 'we are sanctified by faith' is speaking specifically of salvation - from darkness to light, from the power of Satan unto God, receiving the forgiveness of sin. -
βούλομαι
boulomai
boo'-lom-ahee
Middle voice of a primary verb; to "will", that is, (reflexively) be willing: - be disposed, minded, intend, list (be, of own) will (-ing). Compare
For agrument's sake, let's use wish...what is the difference in your opinion? I know when I wish for something, it's out of my power to achieve it. Does that accurately portray God?
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I might even say, "I wish I could go to the ballgame tonight, but I can't because I have a family activity that's more important." In that case, the wish is something I could bring about, but I have a higher priority--spending time with my family.
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The natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God and does not understand them. That cannot be speaking of a believer because the believer does accept the things of the spirit of God. In the context, that is how he got saved.
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verse 44 No man can come to me except the FATHER which has sent me draw me and I will raise him up at the last day.
John i,12 But as many as receive him to them gave him power to become the sons of GOD even to them that believe on his name:
It doesn't stop there, read the rest of the verse.
Another half text is used in John 6;37 Only the last part of the verse.
You can't preach "ALL MEN in what I have described to you. If you don't believe that, then preach the whole verses that are only applied by half text. -
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I think the words wishing vs willing are used similarly (idiom?). It seems to be implying that God doesnt want for anyone to perish and wouldnt wish that evil on anyone although it must and does happen due to our fallen nature. I really dont think we can say that God's Will is for none to perish or then universalism would be around the corner. Im not wanting to argue, haha, Im a newb. I do enjoy talking this over though, so please explain.
I also cant say your arguement says much by the way.
Example. I wish I could go to the mall and spend 100 dollars but its not in my budget although I really could if I went against myself because I do have the money (God's case, power). I would love to go to the mall and spend the money, and could, but its not my wise plan. I could also say that Im not willing "wishing" to to go spend 100 dollars at the mall, but I could. Yet Im not going to because its not my plan.
Am I seeing this right, if not, then please explain? thanks -
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In the context of salvation, if he was pleased to save everyone, he would. But he doesn't.
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