Sorry folks, Dr. Walter gets a point for this one. Unbelievers are not called God's children in scripture, only believers (see John 1:12).
-Jesus said, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me” (John 8:42) Then a few verses later in John 8:44, Jesus told the Pharisees that they “belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.”
-It is also true that God Hates the wicked: Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
However, we should also note that God also loves those he hates:
-John 3:16 - (no need to quote that one) [if we need to discuss if "the world" includes unbelievers, we can, but hopefully the following 2 verses will make that discussion unnecessary)
-2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,1 not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
-Matt. 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. (God loves his enemies, and expresses this by giving them rain and sun...sometimes called common grace)
He Does NOT Love everyone the same way. He does not love those who have rejected him in the same way he loves those who have received him.
Did God design the best possible universe?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by billwald, Oct 18, 2011.
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I see your point, but I do not think it is belittling God to say he could have made the sky orange if he wanted to...even though he obviously decided blue was best and once that was decided he could not do other than the best. -
>He Does NOT Love everyone the same way
How many ways are there for God to love a human? Please describe them. -
>My philosophical problem is that God would save anyone.
My philosophical problem is that God would design a universe which would send people to Hell for not "believing in" Jesus when they never heard of Jesus. God made the rules. I would only have made that rule if my primary purpose was filling hell with humans. -
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If that happens, who changed? Me or my child?
We have the power to change God's love toward us? -
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You are doing the same thing Job did in questioning "why" did God do this and not do that. Do you remember God's response? -
We are told to "agape" our enemies, our neighbor, or broad family, our immediate family, our children, and our spouse.
However, do you agape your enemy as you do you children? Do you agape your children as you do your spouse?
Perhaps the distinction between love for enemies versus friends or family can best be seen in God granting sunshine and rain upon the wicked and godly alike. But does not he promise special and particular love to his people in the form of sunshine and rain in regard to their obedience? The former would be described as general benevolent love but the latter particular and special love
There is no doubt that God had general and benvolent love for Esau but he did not have particular and special redemptive love for Esau but "hated" him in that regard. God's general and benelovent love for the world was the Christ provision preached to all mankind calling on them to repent and believe, however, his particular and special love was the unconditional election of a people unto salvation granting them repentance and faith in the gospel (1 Thes. 1:4-5). -
Interesting that Jesus would pray this for some people but not all...didn't he love everyone the same? If so why no pray for everyone. -
I am not questioning God's actions or saying he did the wrong thing. I am simply saying, "God Designed a world in which some people reject him and go to hell." He could have designed a different world in which no one rejects him (had he determined that world to be better), but he did not; and we must trust that he made the right decision (which is in fact the only decision he could have made once he determined which world would be best by his standards). The evidence we have that God made the Best possible Universe is that this is the universe he actually made. -
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1 ¶ Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 ¶ Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it......
It would seem to question God's wisdom for his present actions is in reality questioning God for his CREATIVE DESIGN as his present actions are resultant. -
However, that is flatly contradictive to the Great commission isn't it?
Those who never hear the gospel but go to hell are not condemned to hell on what they never heard! They are condemned to hell for rejection of whatever light they did have (Rom. 1:19-20; 2:12-15). Sin is what condemns a person to hell. The gospel is the power of God to salvation and that is purely of grace (1 Thes. 1:4-5). -
> If you have two children and one goes his own way and the other obeys you, do you love them differently? I hope not, but you are certainly in different relationships with them.
If I can do something that will force God to alter his relationship his relationship with me then I have power over God in this situation. -
Did God design the best possible universe?
If He didn't, I suppose we'll never know it. Will we? -
>>My philosophical problem is that God would design a universe which would send people to Hell for not "believing in" Jesus when they never heard of Jesus. God made the rules. I would only have made that rule if my primary purpose was filling hell with humans.
>Well, God did design this type of world. Are you saying he made a mistake?
I believe that Jesus died for the sins of the world thus the null case is "saved." God gives us the option to opt out if we don't wish to spend eternity with him. I believe the Church twisted the Good News for purposes of command and control. "You go to hell if you don't believe in Jesus" is not good news. -
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