The orthodox Church view has though stated that Jesus has both natures within Himself, so up to you to prove that He does not!
Do our systems of thought teach that Jesus is really the One True God?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, Dec 14, 2018.
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I wonder , does JonC hold to there was no need for the Virgin Birth, since Jesus was just God in nature, and thus no humanity would get affected/corrupted by the fall to deal with? -
The problem with using “nature” is how the “nature” is considered.
That some desire “100% human” to include in some manner the fallen will that had to be subjected, or the body in some manner was subject to the fallen nature is just not ultimately supportable by Scripture.
Christ was not some Devine that took on the human form, as appeared before Abraham and wrestled with Jacob, but was “a man” (flesh and blood, bones and innards).
That is what the creed states.
However, what some in this modern time seem to do is present a Christ that is doing combat with the nature of God, having to subject Himself, and conquer the flesh and temptations.
That is not the presentation of Scripture. -
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The Archangel Well-Known Member
The Archangel -
I do not accept the Fourth Ecumenical Council as an authority for belief. I hope you understand. To me it is like insisting I must prove paedobaptism wrong before we can discuss covenants. If that were orthodox Baptist belief (I am Baptist) and we were in that company then perhaps I could see your point.
But as it stands I (along with many Protestants and all...that I know of....Eastern Orthodox) do not recognize an acceptance of the creed as the official view of the Church. The burden is on you.
So if it ends here, I hope you have a wonderful Christmas.
John -
If we were arguing that Christ was not God-man then the passages would work. But I agree that Juses us fully God and fully man. I disagree that this constitutes two separate natures within the Person of Christ. That is what you have to prove.
And @The Archangel is right to lean on early RCC doctrine. This is where you have to go because it is not contained in Scripture. -
@The Archangel 's presentation of the creed was, IMHO, sufficient. -
The Archangel Well-Known Member
The Archangel -
The Archangel Well-Known Member
The Archangel -
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It is not up to me to prove something does not exist. The burden of proof is on the one claiming something exists. That's basic argument. -
There are NO passages of Scripture that state Jesus had two natures. As proof I offer no passages of Scripture. Unless you can rebut my claim by providing Scripture your argument is lost.
Do you see now why this is a fallacy? -
The Archangel Well-Known Member
What you're engaging in is the fallacy of onus probandi. You've made a claim against the majority view. The onus is on you to say why the majority view is wrong; it is not on me to explain why the majority view is right. For the purposes of debate, it simply does not matter what you recognize as authoritative or lacking authority--the onus is on you as the initiator of the claim in this thread that Christ does not have two natures.
The Archangel -
Why, if Scripture is your final authority, are you so hesitant here to go there?????? -
The irony here is t by at @The Archangel 's position also demands orthodox Christian belief abandon the Theory of Penal Substitution. The majority of those involved in the present debate deny that theory.
It may be an acceptable trade off (Penal Substitution Theory is heresy but Jesus had two natures). It would be interesting, anyway.....that is....if we can hold "majority rules" mentality across the board as @The Archangel implies.
:Laugh:Laugh:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Laugh:Laugh:Laugh:Laugh:Laugh:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao -
The Archangel Well-Known Member
2.) Not hesitant. See quoted post above.
The Archangel -
You are intelligent and I always appreciate your words.
I understand your claims to be implying that there are no passages stating that Jesus had two natures so we should look to the RCC. Of course, I could be mistaken. I will wait on Scripture to make that determination.
In Christ
John -
The Archangel Well-Known Member
The Archangel -
A whole Bible that demonstrates the creed is correct. Let's start there.
Give me one verse stating that Jesus has two natures. We can go from there.
I look forward to the passage you will provide.
In Christ,
John
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