Ok. We were all moderatiOWNED on the last thread for breaking Rule 9. And rightfully so, Squire threw a yellow flag on the play.
One point was brought up by Jordan that if we wanted a kjv Bible, we needed to get a Cambridge. Ok....why? Why not an Oxford?
Also, what is meant by "corrupt"? Is it the dictionary version?
Edit: we had some interesting points going. Please use logic and reason. Refrain from personal attacks. Adress the issues and please keep this about the issues and not each other.
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Do we have any kjvo, 2nd attempt
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Jkdbuck76, Feb 14, 2016.
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SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
1611, 1769, or 1873? Which is the KJVO's bible of choice? Plus with three different KJB's in circulation, how can one be KJVO with three different KJB's available? o_O
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I know of no KJV edition in print today that is identical to the 1769 Oxford edition of the KJV. I have found as many as 400 differences between the 1769 Oxford KJV and most present typical KJV editions. -
KJVO, 2nd attempt?
Is that the 1769 edition? -
SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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When I say it is, in my opinion, more accurate than the 1762/1769 I mean that it is closer to the readings of the original 1611. After all, if you are going to call it an AV 1611 shouldn't its text reflect the translational choices of the 1611 translation committees? :) -
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The following marginal alternatives (Or:"...) from Romans alone are found in the NIV.
1:9 : in my spirit
3:9 : charged
7:5 : passions
8:11 : because of his spirit
11:7 : hardened
11:12 : loss
11:36 : him
13 : decently -
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From the second 1611 “She” edition, the 1873 Cambridge has “possession“ for “possessions“ (Gen. 47:27), “ye shall“ for “shall ye“ (Lev. 18:30), “thou shalt“ for “shalt thou“ (Num. 10:2), “the valleys“ for “valleys“ (Deut. 8:7), “it is true“ for “it be true“ (Deut. 17:4), “she rose“ for “she arose“ (1 Kings 3:20), “bondman“ for “bondmen“ (1 Kings 9:22), “maidens“ for “maids“ (Job 19:15), “thine hand“ for “thy hand“ (Isa. 64:8), “mine hands” for “my hands” (Isa. 65:2), “mine hand” for “my hand” (Jer. 25:15, Ezek. 6:14), “with the sword“ for “by the sword“ (Ezek. 31:18), “in pieces“ for “to pieces“ (Dan. 2:34), and “they be drunken“ for “they are drunken“ (Nahum 1:10)..
The text of this KJV edition is more in agreement with the 1611 “he” edition than are most other present KJV editions. Scrivener presented a list of the places in his 1873 edition that he restored 1611 readings (Authorized Edition, pp. 215-237). Compared to the Oxford KJV text in the Scofield Reference Bible, the Old Testament of this edition has “you“ for “ye“ (Gen. 9:4), “Girgashite“ for “Girgasite“ (Gen. 10:16), “towards“ for “toward“ (Gen. 15:5), “this thing“ for “this thing also“ (Gen. 19:21), “lift“ for “lifted“ (Gen. 22:4), “amongst“ for “among“ (Gen. 23:10), “to him“ for “unto him“ (Gen. 25:33), “Philistims“ for “Philistines“ (Gen. 26:1), "hand” for “hands” (Gen. 39:1), “spirit” for “Spirit” (Gen. 41:38), “drunk“ for “drank“ (Gen. 43:34), “Haste you“ for “Haste ye“ (Gen. 45:9), “And you“ for “And ye“ (Gen. 45:13), “any man” for “any men” (Gen. 47:6), “you did“ for “ye did“ (Exod. 10:11), “consecrations“ for “consecration“ (Exod. 29:26), “clothes“ for “cloths“ (Exod. 31:10), “stript“ for “stripped“ (Exod. 33:6), “manner fat“ for “manner of fat“ (Lev. 7:23), “nor scales“ for “and scales“ (Lev. 11:10), “were“ for “are“ (Lev. 25:23), “river side“ for “river‘s side“ (Num. 24:6), “begun“ for “began“ (Num. 25:1), “thy hand“ for “thine hand“ (Deut. 2:24), “thy heart“ for “thine heart“ (Deut. 15:7), “thy oil“ for “thine oil“ (Deut. 18:4), “all lost thing“ for “all lost things“ (Deut. 22:3), “noondays“ for “noonday“ (Deut. 28:29), “even the Lord” for “of the Lord” (Josh. 3:11), “or Sheba“ for “and Sheba“ (Josh. 19:2), “spirit” for “Spirit” (Jud. 3:10), “a hammer“ for “an hammer“ (Jud. 4:21), “he went” for “she went” (Ruth 3:15), “girt“ for “girded“ (1 Sam. 2:4), “my heart“ for “mine heart“ (1 Sam. 2:35), “in the fields” for “in the field” (1 Sam. 20:5), “wrapt“ for “wrapped“ (1 Sam. 21:9), “rose“ for “arose“ (1 Sam. 24:8), “a hill“ for “an hill“ (1 Sam. 26:13), “thy word“ for “thy words“ (1 Kings 3:12), “the LORD“ for “the Lord“ (1 Kings 8:56), “flotes“ for “floats“ (1 Kings 5:9), “son” for “sons” (1 Kings 13:11), “leese“ for “lose“ (1 Kings 18:5), “a horse “ for “an horse“ (1 Kings 20:20), “neesed“ for “sneezed“ (2 Kings 4:35), “kab“ for “cab“ (2 Kings 6:25), “to give to him“ for “to give him“ (2 Kings 8:19), “Geshan“ for “Gesham“ (1 Chron. 2:47), “Shimron“ for “Shimrom“ (1 Chron. 7:2), “men of might” for “valiant men of might” (1 Chron. 7:5), “son“ for “sons“ (1 Chron. 7:35), “Michah“ for “Micah“ (1 Chron. 23:20), “and laid” for “and they laid” (2 Chron. 29:23), “sin“ for “sins“ (2 Chron. 33:19), “and gold” for “and the gold” (Ezra 7:18), “built“ for “builded“ (Neh. 3:1), “cruddled“ for “curdled“ (Job 10:10), “sent“ for “scent“ (Job 14:9), “flying” for “fleeing” (Job 30:3), “the LORD“ for “the Lord“ (Ps. 2:4), “whiles” for “while” (Ps. 49:18), “holy Spirit“ for “holy spirit“ (Ps. 51:11), “Zion“ for “Sion“ (Ps. 65:1), “stablish“ for “establish“ (Ps. 89:4), “snare” for “snares” (Ps. 141:9), “vapour” for “vapors” (Ps. 148:8), “beareth“ for “bear“ (Song of Solomon 4:2), “mixt“ for “mixed“ (Isa. 1:22), “Get you” for “Get you” (Isa. 30:11), “burnt“ for “burned“ (Jer. 1:16), “nor daughters” for “or daughters” (Jer. 16:2), “sith“ for “since“ (Jer. 23:38), “afterwards” for “afterward” (Jer. 34:11), “word which“ for “word that“ (Jer. 40:1), “utter court” for “outer court” (Ezek. 10:5), “cropt“ for “cropped“ (Ezek. 17:4), “And the word” for “The word” (Ezek. 18:1), “ebeny“ for “ebony“ (Ezek. 27:15), “astrologians“ for “astrologers“ (Dan. 2:27), “a whirlwind” for “the whirlwind” (Hos. 13:3), “ript“ for “ripped“ (Hos. 13:16), “Kerioth“ for “Kirioth“ (Amos 2:2), “flieth” for “fleeth” (Nah. 3:16), and “Lord GOD“ for “LORD God“ (Hab. 3:19).
In the New Testament, this 1873 and present KJV edition has “but will” for “but he will” (Matt. 3:12), “Spirit“ for “spirit“ (Matt. 4:1), “a hungred“ for “an hungred“ (Matt. 4:2), “out the devils“ for “out devils“ (Matt. 9:34), “Is this“ for “Is not this“ (Matt. 12:23), “had not root” for “had no root” (Matt. 13:6), “a hymn“ for “an hymn“ (Matt. 26:30), “ought“ for “owed“ (Luke 7:41), “he said“ for “he had said“ (Luke 8:8), “to my Lord“ for “unto my Lord“ (Luke 20:42), “They say” for “They said” (John 11:34), “Canaan“ for “Chanaan“ (Acts 7:11, 13:19), “house“ for “housetop“ (Acts 10:9), “law of the husband“ for “law of her husband“ (Rom. 7:2), “approved to death” for “appointed to death” (1 Cor. 4:9), “hand“ for “hands“ (2 Cor. 5:1), “think you“ for “think ye“ (2 Cor. 12:19), “passed“ for “past“ (Eph. 2:11), “shamefastness” for “shamefacedness” (1 Tim. 2:9), “or by our epistle“ for “or our epistle“ (1 Thess. 2:15), “which doeth“ for “that doeth“ (1 John 2:29), “precious stone” for “precious stones” (Rev. 17:4), “sailers“ for “sailors“ (Rev. 18:17), “dipt” for “dipped” (Rev. 19:13), and several others. -
Quiet in here....
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Would a variation of the KJV --switching most of the the marginals to the main text still be considered a KJV? My question is mainly aimed at KJVOs. I rather doubt they would accept that kind of inversion because they believe that exact phraseology is necessary to retain its perfection. Synonyms alone are anathema to them. However, as has been noted, editions of the KJV since 1611 have indeed put a number of marginals into the text and readers of the KJV either did not notice or didn't think it was a big deal.
But if the NIV followed the same principle it would still be an NIV edition. The same applies to many other translations. -
To start off on another rabbit trail, has anyone looked at the new Cambridge KJV produced by David Norton? Is it fair to say that Norton is the Scrivener of this generation?
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There would be around 4000 differences in text that affect the sound in this 2005 Cambridge edition when compared to the Oxford edition in the Scofield Reference Bible. Hundreds [perhaps a thousand] of these differences would be where it goes back to 1611 renderings. The updating of the spelling of many words also affected the sound over 1,700 times [examples include “baked“ for “baken,” “bore” for “bare” used as a past tense verb, “begot” for “begat,” “broke” for “brake,” “built” for “builded,” “”dug” for “digged,“ drove” for “drave,” “dwelt“ for “dwelled,” “got“ for “gat,” “show” for “shew,” “showed” or “shown” for “shewed,” “shone“ for “shined,” “strewed“ for “strawed,” “swore” for “sware,” “tore“ for “tare,” “waxed“ for “waxen“]. In addition, the 2005 Cambridge used “a” instead of “an” before several words starting with h (over 300 differences). The 2005 Cambridge also used “thy” or “my” when used as adjectives instead of “thine” and “mine” in many cases (over 1100 differences).
Some other example changes include the following: “And Abram” for “But Abram” (Gen. 16:6), “innocence” for “innocency” (Gen. 20:5), “seethed” for “sod” (Gen. 25:29), “endowed” for “endued” (Gen. 30:20), “chided” for “chode” (Gen. 31:36), “hindmost” for “hindermost” (Gen. 33:2), “aught” for “ought” (Gen. 47:18), “excellence” for “excellency” (Exod. 15:7), “showbread“ for “shewbread“ (Exod. 25:30), “always“ for “alway“ (Exod. 25:30), “rearward” for “rereward” (Num. 10:25), “ribbon” for “ribband” (Num. 15:38), “diverse“ for “divers“ (Deut. 22:11), “avowed“ for “avouched“ (Deut. 26:17), “haemorrhoids” for “emerods” (Deut. 28:27), “hocked” for “houghed” (Josh. 11:9), “wrung“ for “wringed“ (Jud. 6:38), “arrogance” for “arrogancy” (1 Sam. 2:3), “situated” for “situate” (1 Sam. 14:5), “sawn“ for “sawed“ (1 Kings 7:9), “cleaved” for “clave” (1 Kings 11:2), shreded“ for “shred“ (2 Kings 4:39), “attentive“ for “attent“ (2 Chron. 7:15), “upheld“ for “upholden“ (Job 4:4), “shaped“ for “shapen“ (Ps. 51:5), “shook“ for “shaked“ (Ps. 109:25), “ploughmen“ for “plowman“ (Isa. 28:24), “tablet“ for “table“ (Isa. 30:8), “cockatrice‘s eggs“ for “cockatrice‘ eggs“ (Isa. 59:5), “insatiable“ for “unsatiable“ (Ezek. 16:28), “hose“ for “hosen“ (Dan. 3:21), “overflowed“ for “overflown“ (Dan. 11:22), “vats“ for “fats“ (Joel 2:24), “tablets“ for “tables“ (Hab. 2:2), “priced“ for “prised“ (Zech. 11:13), “whilst” for “whiles” (Matt. 5:25), astonished“ for “astonied“ (Matt. 13:54), “oaths‘ sake“ for “oath‘s sake“ (Matt. 14:9), “unwashed“ for “unwashen“ (Matt. 15:20), “louring“ for “lowring“ (Matt. 16:3), “spat“ for “spit“ (Mark 8:23), “wine-vat“ for “wine fat“ (Mark 12:1), “Elizabeth“ for “Elisabeth“ (Luke 1:5), “leapt“ for “leaped“ (Luke 1:41), “writing-tablet“ for “writing table“ (Luke 1:63), “showing“ for “shewing“ (Luke 1:80), “thanks“ for “thank“ (Luke 6:32), “spat“ for “spitted“ (Luke 18:32), “others“ for “other“ (Luke 23:32), “Canaan“ for “Chanaan“ (Acts 7:11), “aware“ for “ware“ (Acts 14:6), “others“ for “other“ (Acts 17:9), “hoisted“ for “hoised“ (Acts 27:40), “immovable” for “unmoveable” (Acts 27:41), “incorruptible” for “incorruptible” (Rom. 1:23), “Timothy“ for “Timotheus“ (2 Cor. 1:19), “tablets“ for “tables“ (2 Cor. 3:3), “engraved“ for “engraven“ (2 Cor. 3:7), “all others“ for “all other“ (2 Cor. 13:2), “others“ for “other“ (Gal. 1:19), “sometime” for “sometimes” (Eph. 2:13, 5:8), “others“ for “other“ (Phil. 1:17, 2:3), “example” for “ensample” (Phil. 3:17), “establish“ for “stablish“ (1 Thess. 3:13), “braided“ for “broided“ (1 Tim. 2:9), “fly” for “flee” (1 Tim. 6:11), “Luke“ for “Lucas“ (Philemon 1:24), “tablets“ for “tables“ (Heb. 9:4), and “diverse“ for “divers“ (Heb. 13:9).
The 2011 edition by Norton makes a few other changes, not in the 2005 edition. -
Why all the fuss? English is so heavily-used worldwide that it constantly undergoes small changes almost weekly, and from nation to nation. The main point of importance is that we UNDERSTAND the Bible we are reading, be it the KJV, ESV, or any other accurate translation.
I have a Cambridge Edition KJV, a repro AV 1611, and several other KJV volumes, likely 1769 editions. I understand all of them equally, despite the small differences in wording, spelling, etc.
And I also KNOW-not GUESS-that GOD IS NOT LIMITED to the KJV in English. that's why I have several other translations, from a repro Geneva to the ESV, and I also read Wycliffe's 1384 edition online. I have learned something from each & every one of them. After all, that's why God caused/allowed them to be made. -
Mods, pls close this thread since it is dead.
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Closed at the author's request.