Or is it something else being spoken of here?
Does Fallen From Grace mean Loss of salvation?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, Oct 25, 2013.
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clark thompson MemberSite Supporter
It does refer to losing salavtion and it is something I personally do not accept.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
It does not mean losing their salvation. They were not rejecting Jesus or denying Him. It is a reference to their failure to rely on the grace of God. Christians can do that without losing their salvation.
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I see "fallen from grace" as more like being out of the "good graces" of God. We know that if we are harboring sin in our life, He won't listen to us. So, to me, fallen from grace us simply being out of fellowship with God. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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In Romans 6 "under grace" appears to mean saved. -- But we could just ignore that and pretend that "under grace " is just "another form of lost".
Then that might help rescue OSAS in the Gal 5:4 case where "They were running well" as lost people - but then suddenly got "lost-ER' and fell from grace.
I think that is the only alternative to just accepting the text as it is written.
in Christ,
Bob -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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In Gal 5:4 "Fallen from Grace" is said to be "Severed FROM Christ".
In John 15:1-5 - being severed from Christ - is to then die and be "burned in the fire" as a dead branch -- no longer alive in Christ at all.
You could argue that "under Grace" means saved and "fallen from Grace" means "still saved so that we can rescue OSAS" -- it would be eisegesis. Inserting into the text whatever you need to protect a prior misconception rather than allowing the Bible to speak for itself.
in Christ,
Bob -
If I post "you liar" or "you hypocrit" or "you cult" or "I wish were banned" or "I don't know why they allow you to ..." and someone had to keep bleeping out my ad hominem text with the message "<obligatory rant deleted here>" -- certainly I would need to consider reigning in that sort of language.
Do you find posts from me using that sort of unchristian language???
If so then please point it out to me - and I will happily retract it.
But if you only find that in my post as a "quote" of someone directing that language at me - I cannot be blamed for what they post.
in Christ,
Bob -
That is refreshing.
Paul points to some people in Galatia that experienced this problem
Gal 5:4
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. -
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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in Christ,
Bob -
"World is not really world"
"Fallen FROM Grace" is not really fallen FROM Grace but is "somewhat ungracious" or "A little less graceful these days".
You know all the politically correct ways to morph the text in true "any ol excuse will do" fashion so as to cling to prior dearly held positions that are otherwise refuted by the Bible.
Good point.
in Christ,
Bob -
But really, the problem is not in the lines "fallen from grace" or "severed from Christ". The problem is, the line they want to throw away is "ye who would be justified by the law". Put the whole statement in it's proper context and the controversy goes away.
"Fallen from grace" is not a good thing no matter what you believe it means. The question one needs to ask themselves is do I want to be justified by works or obedience? If one does, then one has fallen from grace. Thus, they better figure out what to do to get out of this fallen situation. The answer is obvious to most, but to some the verse is a stumbling block. -
Those who imagine that "Fallen from Grace" and "Severed from Christ" are just another way to say "OSAS" have the "all news is good news" view of the Bible where any text that refutes OSAS must be re-invented as "strongly affirming it" no matter if it points to "fallen from Grace".
And of course as Steaver sometimes appears to imply - to accept 1John 5:2-4 or Rev 14:12 or 1Cor 7:19 "as written" is to "fall from grace" so somehow that "protects OSAS" as well.
Not sure why he keeps going there as if that idea "works".
in Christ,
Bob -
Basically contrasting saints who live by grace vrs those who choose to live under bondage of the Law! -
You respond with something of the form "yes but THESE saved people are then lost because they decide in favor of the Judaizers" as if that will spare OSAS.
But OSAS makes no such mythical claim about "Once saved always saved UNLESS you turn to agreement with a Judaizer - then you can go from saved to lost".
Steaver struggles with this point - but I don't think it is as hard to see has he pretends.
As a result - the point remains. -
Galatians 5:4 is very different in the KJB and seems to give a very different meaning;
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
In the KJB this verse says "Christ is become of no effect unto you" not "severed". What does this mean?
Could this mean a person who was once saved is now lost? Possibly, but I believe it is saying something very similar to Hebrews 4:2;
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
I believe what Paul is saying in Galatians 5:4 is similar to Heb 4:2, that the gospel does not profit those who fail to depend on Jesus alone to save them, but depend on their own works.
The potential to save you is there, but a person who depends on their works has forfeited this potential salvation.
So it is not necessarily saying that a person could be saved, and then lose salvation, these particular persons were never saved, they never believed on Jesus.
As for "ye did run well", this could be saying that this church at one time was following true doctrine, but has departed from it and is now teaching error.
Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
Note that Paul did not say they had "turned" from the truth, he said, "that ye should not obey the truth". So this supports that these persons NEVER believed proper doctrine to begin with, they were never saved.
So, I get the impression that the truth (proper doctrine) was in time past being taught in this church, but now error had been introduced and was being taught. People under this false doctrine were not being saved, the gospel had become of no effect to them and did not profit them, because they were not depending by faith on Jesus, but on the works of the law.
I would be the first to admit there are many scriptures that COULD SEEM to teach that a person can lose salvation, and Galatians 5 is a good example. But I believe there is MUCH scripture that clearly says you cannot lose salvation, and so Galatians 5 and other such passages cannot possibly be teaching this. The scriptures cannot contradict themselves.
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