Does God Know you?

Not at all. Hope is not absolute assurance. I can have relative assurance based on how I know I am keeping the commandments, but I cannot have absolute knowledge because I am not God, and therefore I cannot judge myself as God will judge me. I did not set the standard at perfect, God did.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

If the idea of perfection for obtaining the reward sounds extreme, how much more extreme is it to apply these teachings to the free gift of eternal salvation?

1 John 3:6
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

My hope is that I might die to self, and that Christ might live through me. That is the only way that I could possible live up to the calling. What is Christ in you, if it is not Christ living through you?

Galatians 2:20
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Born of God? What does that mean?

1 John 5:18
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Hebrews 11:35
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

Revelation 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

We know that all will be raised up on the last day. There is a better resurrection for those who are accounted worthy.

Luke 20:35
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

I understand that I will never be perfect. The answer has never been be absolutely perfect. But that does not mean that I can't be bad enough to hear Christ say 'depart from me, worker of iniquity.'

 

Here we go again with one of those words like "know", "eternal", etc.

Perfect means mature and very rarely does the context indicate absolute 100% perfection.

Was Jesus perfect as a baby? (Depends on what you mean by perfect)

Was he more perfect as an adult? After the crucifiction? After He was glorified?

 

With all due respect brother James, you are all over the place with your scripture posting as support for your views.

In one breath you say "nobody can be perfect". In the next you say "God states you are to be perfect".

You give scripture about Paul knowing that he will recieve his crown, yet Paul declares that he has not ever, nor can attain perfection in his flesh.

I said "yes I know Christ knows me because I keep His commandments". You say "are you keeping them all" and post scripture about "perfection".

Then if I say we all sin you will post scripture saying that the born of God cannot sin!

Do you have any solid dirrection in your life? Anything solid you can help instruct others in the body of Christ with?

Your post has left the doctrine of your view of "I never knew you"
with hopelessness and "i don't knows".

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

Brother Lacy, where have you been? Maybe there is hope for this view point other than "I don't knows".

PLEASE don't tell me that your final conclusion will be the same as Jump's and James!

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

Is the answer in your view to just ignore the scriptures that require obedience from believers? In this case, ignorance is not bliss.

Luke 12:47-48
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

There is an answer, but first one has to agree with the premise that God's standards are not lowered just because we find them difficult.

 

In other words, to say "I'm only human, we all sin", or "I am saved so all is well" will not help you much when the Lord comes to reckon with his children. Perfection (maturity, continual growth) is God's standard.

 

What he said.

 

Amen! No disagreement from my pov. Nor has it anything to do with our differences in this debate.

Amen! No disagreement from my pov. Nor has it anything to do with our differences in this debate.

Brother Lacy, you have been away from this thread for several pages. Here is my response to your post back on page 9.......

Also, I will ask you the same question I asked James, "does God know you today"? Yes, no, I don't know.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

I don't know if Lacy fell asleep. It doesn't matter whether the folks in the passage expected to be accepted at the judgement seat or not. What matters is why they were cast out, and what they might have done differently in order to be accepted. I don't know very many believers that expect to be cast away at the judgment seat of Christ, but I don't know any unbelievers that expect to even appear at the judgment seat of Christ, let alone be cast away. They certainly aren't hedging their bets by casting out devils. Any Christian who rejects the teaching of accountability at the JSOC will be shocked to hear the Lord say 'I never knew you', but that doesn't mean they weren't warned.

 

I think it does matter if I am to learn from the warning. If it is true that these were believers who sincerely thought they were doing the will of the Father yet were rejected, then I am at a lost as to what is expected of me to enter as are you.

You sincerely believe you are doing the will of the Father are you not? But in your view you cannot be sure that you are. So in reality, "hope" for you is only "wishful thinking" , afterall, from your pov these poor criers were sincere in that they thought they were doing the will of the Father, yet were rejected.

Hope of glory is Christ in you, it is a joyful hope, not a unknown. If these criers sincerely thought they had done the will of the Father yet were rejected then you and I and every other Christian have a empty hope with no foundation.

Amen!

I don't know any Christians who reject the teaching of accountability at the JSOC, however none will hear "I never knew you" lest Jesus be found a liar which is impossible.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

Keeping Jesus' commandments is what is expected.

I don't think so much that they thought that they were doing the will of the Father, as they did not think they would be taken to task for their sin. That is what will shock many, the fact that Jesus will still hold a Christian accountable for sins. Also we should be wary of diminishing the gift of being raised up on the last day. My expectation is always that I am eternally saved regardless of my works. I can certainly rejoice in that. I can also rejoice that Christ has given me every thing I need to obtain the reward.

My point being it is strange to imagine unbelievers expecting to inherit the kingdom of God. Why would you imagine that these folks thought such a thing if they were not believers?

Then who will hear that at the judgment seat of Christ?

 

Part of the problem as I see it is the misinterpretation of this passage:

Matthew 7
22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

In this context and at that particular time in Jesus ministry, He was not speaking to NT Christians. He was speaking to the Jews who were still under the old covenant. He was telling them that on the day of judgement, there would be many (Jews) who would expect to receive eternal life because they had done good things in His (God's) name such as prophesy and cast out demons, which they DID do as OT Jews. Only the power of God can cast out a demon as Jesus clearly taught when the Jews accused Him of casting out a demon by the power of the devil. He told them "satan cannot cast out satan, a house divided against itself will fall". Therefore, if they did cast out demons they did it by the power of God. But, when they stand before Christ in the judgement, they will then know that He is God because by that time they willl have bowed the knee and confessed that Jesus Christ is Lord. He will tell them, "I never knew you" (because they had rejected Him). It's sooo important to realize who the Lord was speaking to and why. He was NOT speaking to them as NT born again Christians.
Now, Jesus may also tell some people (gentiles) "I never knew you because they had deceived themselves into thinking they were saved, but in this particular passage Jesus is clearly telling JEWS that they missed eternal life because they rejected their Messiah.
No one can cast out a demon unless it is by the power of God, therefore the ones (who cast out demons and Christ will not know) in this passage cannot be confused with NT believers. They were Jews. You cannot build a NT doctrine around this passage.

 

So, just how many unsaved people are going to be at the Judgment Seat of Christ?

 

So you are admitting that these Lord, Lord criers were in fact saved, right? Because unsaved folks can not cast out demons. That's an impossibility as you have pointed out in your post.

 

None. Only those whose sins have been covered by the blood of Christ.

The Lord, Lord cryers will not be at the judgement seat of Christ. They are Jews who were still under the Law at the time Jesus was speaking to them in Matthew, but rejected their Messiah.

Continue on to verse 24:
24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

They could build their house on the rock (Christ) by hearing Christ's words and acting on them, or they could continue living under the Law.

Jesus said that many of them would NOT build their house on the Rock, thus the reason why Jesus will not know them at the judgement.

 

I believe I already addressed that. The ones who cast out the demons and did miracles were Jews. They were not saved under the new covenant. OT saints were declared righteous because they believed God. The Messiah, Christ, God was standing in their midst and they did not believe Him, therefore even in the OT economy, they were not saved, because they did not belielve God.

 

Now you are contradicting yourself. You say they were unsaved, yet at the same time you say they "did" cast out demons and that only "saved" people can do that.

So which is it? You can't have it both ways. Either they did or they didn't. You said they did. By your own reasoning they could not have been unsaved. Or you are going to have to take back the fact that they did cast out demons.

So what will it be?

 

Why will OT Jews not be at the judgment seat of Christ? And do you have any Scripture to back that up?

 

J, this really is not so hard to understand. Jesus came for His people, the Jews. Can we agree on that? In Matthew 7 Jesus is talking to who? The Jews who had been waiting for their Messiah. He is not speaking to NT believers. The new covenant did not even exist at this point. Stop trying to apply something Jesus said to the Jews of His day to modern day believers.
The cryers at the judgement are "many" of the people He is talking to.
"Many (Jews who rejected their Messiah) will say to Me, Lord, Lord....

Now, you tell me. How many Jews that were present during our Lord's ministry to Israel and heard Him teach and understood what He was saying, but rejected Him, were saved? Up until they heard Jesus they were saved through the Law, but once they were face to face with their redeemer and rejected Him, they were condemned. Even the most faithful Jew will be condemned by not believing in the One God has sent.
As Jesus said "no one can come to the Father except through Me."

They cryers Jesus was saying will stand before Him and cry Lord, Lord are going to be the very people He spoke with and ministered to when He walked the streets of Jerusalem.

 

Amy I apreciate you taking the time to expand on your answer, and I say this with ALL DUE RESPECT . . . your latest post goes to prove that you are lacking in understanding of what is being dealt with.

What you have essentially said is that folks that were saved under the Law were faced with having to accept something else for "another" or a "better" savlation once they were face to face with Christ.

There is a couple of mistakes here, and I pray that you will read this in the manner in which I am wanting to deliver this and that is love.

The OT Jews were not saved by the Law. They were saved by grace through faith just like you and I. The law had nothing to do with their salvation. The law was given to saved folks. Exodus 12 is an OT type (it's really a dual type, but we won't go there) of eternal salvation.

That is Exodus 12 is a picture of death and shed blood being done by another on behalf of the undeserving. Meaning it's a picture of Christ dying in our place even though we were deserving of death.

So ALL the folks that left Egypt were saved. They crossed the Red Sea (type of baptism) and they were headed toward the promised land (the better portion). The law was given to them during their journey. So the law was given to saved individuals.

Now the second part of why your statements are incorrect is because these saved Jews were not in "need" of eternal salvation. They already had it.

So when Jesus came preaching the gospel of the kingdom He wasn't preaching to a bunch of people who's forever and ever and ever and ever destiny was the lake of fire. He was preaching and teaching to "saved" individuals.

Now where you did state a case correctly is that they were looking for their Messiah. The Jews rejected Jesus as their King/Messiah. So they didn't lose their eternal salvation, they simply lost the opportunity to rule and reign with Christ in His coming kingdom.

The offer of the kingdom to Israel was a national offer, meaning the entire nation had to believe and repent in order for the kingdom to be established.

Now we know that some believed and repented, but most did not. Because of that the offer of the kingdom was taken away from Israel and given to a new nation that would produce the fruits of it.

Now the offer of the kingdom was going to be open to the Gentiles. However, there was a problem with offering the kingdom to the Gentiles. They were a people without a God according to Scripture and they were not within the lineage of Abraham.

So in order for this to be taken care of they had to be placed in the same spiritually alive position that Israel was in during this time in order to entertain and even comprehend the offer that was being put forth to them.

And the only way a person can be made spiritually alive is by God's grace through faith apart from works.

So a Gentile (and Jews alike now) have to be saved by grace through faith apart from works before they are introduced to the offer of the kingdom.

This is again one of the biggest reasons why I asked the question a while back as to how the Jews were saved prior to Jesus' ministry. And we both agreed that it was by grace through faith.

So the answer to your question is they were ALL saved. Jesus came with a message that was only directed to forever and ever and ever and ever saved (spiritually alive) people, because it was a spiritual message. So if they were spiritually dead He would have been offering something to them that was IMPOSSIBLE for them to receive, because they wouldn't be able to understand the offer anyway.

This is absolutely true, but the condemnation is only for a season. Notice even the most haneous sin and how it is dealt with in Scripture. Matthew 12 is where the religious leaders ascribe Jesus' power to Satan and they were told they blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Notice specifically what it says about the forgiveness. It says that sin is not to be forgiven in this age or the age to come.

What is the age to come? It is the coming kingdom of Christ. They are not going to be able to rule and reign with Christ, but it does not speak of that sin being counted against them in eternity (endless ages).

See another mistake that folks make is that they believe the next age is eternity, but they skip right over the kingdom.

Sister God has revealed so much Truth to you over the time that you have spent on this board. And I know that you are struggling with some of it, but be opened minded and don't close God out on these things.

I know you don't like me bringing this up, but you have seen one of the great breakthroughs for a believer and that is seeing that warnings are to believers. And there are only three options in how to deal with those. One they "really" aren't to believers (and you have already correctly stated that they "really" are to believers). Two believers can lose their eternal salvation (which we know is not possible). Or the Biblical option and that is that there is something else beyond everlasting life that is available, but is also conditional and that is rulership in the coming kingdom of Christ.

This is true, but because the gospel of the kingdom is open to us today there are also going to be criers that say Lord, Lord that are saved today. And they will say the same thing in that "we deserve a place in your kingdom, because look at all the [good] works we have done in your name."

And He is going to say the same thing to those folks. I never knew you. Their works might have been good in the eyes of the "church," but they were works of iniquity in the eyes of the Lord.

May God have mercy on our eyes and ears! You have come to far to go backwards! Keep pressing toward the Light, because there is a prize that awaits you if you do!