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Featured Does the Bible forbid Red Wine?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by evangelist6589, Jul 31, 2016.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    “Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly!”
    ‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭23:31‬ ‭NIV‬‬
    http://bible.com/111/pro.23.31.niv

    Does this passage forbid the drinking of red wine? I personally do not touch wine, however out of personal preference. But Red wine may be forbidden to drink period. What say you?

    Not interested in a debate on whether drinking alcohol is forbidden or okay. More interested in if the drinking of red wine is forbidden from scripture.
     
  2. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    You do a disserve to scripture and to the ministry of teaching when you do not quote the entire thought:

    Proverbs 23:29-35
    29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow?
    Who has contentions? Who has complaints?
    Who has wounds without cause? Who has dullness of the eyes?
    30 Those who linger over wine,
    those who go looking for mixed wine.
    31 Do not look on the wine when it is red,
    when it sparkles in the cup,
    when it goes down smoothly.
    32 Afterward it bites like a snake,
    and stings like a viper.
    33 Your eyes will see strange things,
    and your mind will speak perverse things.
    34 And you will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea,
    and like one who lies down on the top of the rigging.
    35 You will say, “They have struck me, but I am not harmed!
    They beat me, but I did not know it!
    When will I awake? I will look for another drink.”


    This passage is describing the troubles of those "who linger over wine" - those who are drunkards (v. 30).

    Pain, grief, broken relationship, arguments, injuries, and mental dullness result from the abuse of alcohol (v.29).

    The proverb writer goes on to use poetic metaphors to describe addiction:

    (v. 31) A picture of obsession/pleasure - attractiveness of the color and appearance and the sensation of taste
    (v. 32) A picture of a hangover from overindulgence - stings like a snake. The moderate use of wine does not produce a hangover.
    (v. 33) A picture of hallucinations and loss of control. The moderate use of wine does not produce these effects.
    (v. 34) A picture of incapacitation. A glass or two of wine in an evening does not incapacitate.
    (v. 35ab) A picture of loss of memory and feeling. A glass or two of wine in an evening does not produce these effects.
    (v.35c) A picture of addiction overcoming every other part of life. A glass or two of wine in an evening does not lead to addiction by itself.

    Red wine was common in the culture. It is a vivid color and lends itself to poetic description.

    The passage is not about the color of wine, but of addiction. Therefore, the answer to your question is no.
     
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  3. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    I see thanks.
     
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  4. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    The Chablis growers and vintners thank you.
     
  5. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
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    As does Mike the Lemonade Guy...

    *laugh*
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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  7. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, the OP's favorite fruity malt liquor has several varieties that are red - Strawberry Margarita, Cranberry Passionfruit, etc.
     
  8. Smyth

    Smyth Active Member

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    Is it progress that no one on a Baptist board has yet insisted drinking is evil? "Jesus made Kool Aid!" Or, is it decline, maybe no Baptist here cares enough about Truth to argue that drinking is evil? "Jesus made Kool Aid, but it would be racist for me to say so."
     
  9. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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  10. Smyth

    Smyth Active Member

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    Isn't that horrible logic, red wine must be superior because the Bible warns against drunkards hovering over it? In context, if I didn't know anything about wine (color is irrelevant to quality), I'd conclude that Red wine is inferior, the cheap stuff winos drink.

    Proverbs 23:31 doesn't say anything about the color of wine. The Hebrew word in question is adam, the word for man, which would be clear if the context of the Masoretic text wasn't so corrupted. Fortunately, I have the original autograph of Proverbs, so I know better: Keep company of good men, don't stair at cups of wine.
     
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    "Adam" is not the Hebrew word for "man." It is the Hebrew word for "red" as in "ruddy red."

    And, as הִתְאַדֵּם is middle voice it means the wine makes itself red. It is an allusion to the character of the wine itself.

    It simply indicates that the color is pleasing to the eye followed by the taste being pleasing to the tongue.

    The verse indicates the wine is "too good." If great care is not taken it can be far too alluring.

    First the man takes a drink.

    Then the drink takes a drink.

    Then the drink takes the man.
     
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  12. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Also the Chardonnay industry.
     
  13. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Any way you can post up a pic of said autograph. I admit that I am intrigued.
     
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  14. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Yep. I had two of them on vacation and avoided all the red wine and beer at my moms birthday. I want to avoid getting drunk which is a sin yet enjoy a beverage when I can for as Kenneth Gentry says God Gave Wine.
     
  15. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    The KJV, ESV, and NIV all say Red so I figured that's what the original Hebrew meant.
     
  16. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Drinking is not evil getting drunk and being addicted to Too Much Wine is.
     
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