DOJ: Arizona Immigration Law Must Be 'Struck Down'

Dragoon,

I am not giving uninformed ideas about this lawsuit, my first post on this issue outlined my opposition to both.

I, as well, do not hold to a prior case on this issue as I believe this case law does not apply (I believe there are limits to stare decisis, Plessy v. Ferguson is one area I believe stare decisis should not have been maintained, and was overturned by Brown v. Board of Education. As well Roe V. Wade was a poor decision that should not be maintained by stare decisis). Again, until someone can show me in the Constitution where it says "reasonable suspicion", I will agree. Otherwise, I believe it is a violation of my constitutional rights. You can have all the reasonable suspicion you want, but you should not stop me, question me, or keep me unless you have probable cause.

 

You got it! The latter is the so-called "Terry Stop" ruling!

 

I understand what you're saying and agree with the danger of case law but I think you're wrong about this particular law.

Remember that the term "probable cause" in the 4th amendment is a requirement to obtain a warrant for a search or seizure. This is a different criteria than "reasonable suspicion" required for a traffic stop, for example, where a warrant is not required. In the course of such a stop observations may lead to "probable cause" for further action. A person could be detained or arrested for possession of illegal drugs, carrying an illegal weapon, being recognized as suspect in a robbery, having stolen merchandise in clear view in the back seat of their car, etc. - and being an illegal alien. The probable cause developed after the reasonable suspicion even if not the same as the suspicion.

 

The 4th Amendment protects me from all sorts of searches. As well, violation of a traffic law is not even reasonable suspicion, it is clearly the officer witnessing a crime. There is no suspicion about stopping a person when they have broken the law. The issue comes when you only reasonably suspect they have broken the law.

 

Like I said, the reasonable suspicion can, and often does, lead to probable cause. You could, I suppose, rename what's called "reasonable suspicion" to "probable cause" as you suggested earlier and then there would be no problem except this is not the customary meaning of the terms.

Many traffic stops are, in fact, based on reasonable suspicion of, let's say, driving under the influence. The probable cause for arrest comes after further investigation.

 

Surely you know as well as I do that there are conservatives quite willing to ignore the U.S. constitution just as there are liberals quite willing to ignore the U.S constitution if it stands in the way of what they want.

 

I hope that the Arizona law is struck down and they suffer rebuke for such silliness.

 

The United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.

 

Plagiarism!

 

Borrowing! :smilewinkgrin:

 

... but Obama's goal seems to be to turn it into a democracy by gaining the overriding popular vote of every entitlement class possible probably even including illegal aliens.

... and, as a republic, the States have a duty to their citizens that the federal government should, but does not, respect preferring instead to continue the advance towards subsidiary Providences.

... and, is Arizona also a republic?

 

If a state decided that the federal government was not doing its job of defending of citizens by not bombing Iran's nuclear facilities would it be appropriate for a state to put together its own air force and bomb Iran?

 

This is not even close to being a valid argument as such is specifically prohibited.

Try instead the arrest of a suspected bank robber that is subsequently handed over to federal authorities.

 

Silly comparison.

 

Sure it is. And it destroys the argument of the pro-Arizona law crowd.

 

No it just makes you look silly.

 

Not at all. The saliency of the comparison destroys the argument of the pro-Arizona law crowd.

 

I see that you are left with nothing but a personal attack.

 

I agree. Let's fix the federal government, not ignore the U.S. constitution.