Featured Drinking

:laugh: Please tell me you are being facetious :laugh:

look up what wine on the lees well refined is on a winery sight and come back.

The odd thing is my Welch's has an expiration date on it. Are they tryng to keep me from drinking the best juice on the planet? Some of these arguments from the teetotalers are hilarious!

 

Look up "zaqaq". It doesn't mean "aged." Isaiah 25 is not speaking of an aged wine, but rather a filtered wine.

 

Wine on the lees well refined by the very definition of what the phrase is means well aged (what just about every translation team also recognizes). Your argument is like finding a skeletal remains in the woods and when I tell you it has been there a long time you come back with "we only know its the remains of a human"

 

What you teach is it is ok to mess around with it, but don't get drunk on it. You are teaching them it is ok to experiment with recreational drugs when you know full well one alcoholic drink can cause a reaction within a person like sex, and suddenly it is not about obeying God's command anymore but rather an addiction is begun. I say your teaching is ungodly. I personally believe you are just trying to justify your own addiction that you struggle with, expressing how you just love some alcoholic drinks.

 

We don't teach fear. We teach the Word. If I were you I would be more afraid of God's judgment for perverting His Word than I would be about young people having a beer. You might also want to pray about that judgmental attitude of yours too.

 

Hey Steaver...

Did you catch that?

We don't teach fear but you better be afraid.

ROFL

 

Would that be your comforting words to the mother's of children killed by drunk teenagers? "hey, we told them to just drink one, don't blame us for telling them God said it was ok to play around with it a bit"

 

Such hyper-emotionalism is beneath you and does not serve the discussion.

Teach Scripture faithfully and trust God. Then you have no need of fearing the results. Dishonor God and twist His Word then you have very reason to fear.

If we must consider fear then lets consider it biblically. Do you fear God or do you fear man?

Would you rather teach God's standard and let the hearer be responsible for what they do with it or teach the traditions of men and be responsible for leading people astray?


None of us deny the danger of alcohol. We are just committed to teaching the subject according to God's Word and His standard. He knows the dangers involved and He knows how we should address it.

If you do that then when tragedy strikes you don't need to pour salt in a wound. You go back to Scripture and God's promises to be faithful and bring healing and comfort. You hold the grieving and cry with them even as you look to see how God will be glorified in the tragedy. Sometimes you just hug them silently and avoid the errors of Job's three friends. I have experienced this enough to know that if you stay in the Word and stay prayed up God will give you wisdom to know how to minister to people in such times. Preach the Word faithfully and the people will be better prepared to stand in the midst of tragedy.

 

BTW, no one is telling people its ok to "play around with it a bit". Its about knowing God's standard and preaching the whole counsel of God's Word. That means you are also teaching them to obey the laws of the land. So depending on your cultural context that would include drinking ages and driving laws.

 

Teach it the way the Bible truly says? I like that...

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

 

Keep it in context.

Pro 23:29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes?
Pro 23:30 Those who linger long over wine, Those who go to taste mixed wine.
Pro 23:31 Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it sparkles in the cup, When it goes down smoothly;
Pro 23:32 At the last it bites like a serpent And stings like a viper.
Pro 23:33 Your eyes will see strange things And your mind will utter perverse things. (NASB)


The passage is against being drunk, not against a single drink.


And again, we must teach the whole counsel of God. You cannot build theology or draw a line on a moral issue based on one verse when God spoke on it in several passages.

Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
Col 2:17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
Col 2:19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
Col 2:20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
Col 2:21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"
Col 2:22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
Col 2:23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence. (NASB)


Rom 14:1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.
Rom 14:2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
Rom 14:3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. (NASB)


Further, you should know that weddings were not just a couple of hours, they were several days. The people were eat, drink to merriment (even getting drunk), and party for several days. Jesus' first public miracle was to make water into wine. Not only was it wine, but it was very good (tasty and strong). You can read about it in John 2.

We told to not be drunkards. We are not told to abstain. There is a difference.


We ought not to draw lines on issues that God Himself did not draw.

 

not much typing...more copy and paste. This is an argument I am used to.

 

He did, it says don't even look at it!

From your application of Jesus making water into wine one must conclude that Jesus provided more alcohol to a crowd which was already "well drunk".

 

Alcohol is a drug Ann, and it is an addictive drug. Do you deny this?

I was a drinker for 10 years. Many. many times I went to the bar or frig for "just one". Just one drink changes the mind and emotions, natural senses to guard oneself from sin is compromised. After one, the second comes much easier. After a second and third, it deteriorates further and further. Yes Ann, one drink can lead one to sin.

This is why God's Word instructs us believers to abstain completetly from alcohol. Kings and priest are not to compromise their ability to lead others with a clear mind.

"[It is] not for kings, O Lemuel, [it is] not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted." (Prov 31:4-5)

However, it is ok to give alcohol for mercy purposes to the injured or dying to deaden their pain and suffering...

"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more." (Prov 31:6)

"The drinking of alcohol will lead to the perversionof justice (Isa5:22,23). Wine (alcoholic) should only be given to him that is ready to perish, for this represents an advantageous use of God's gift (cf. 1Tim 5:23). The pious women of Jerusalem used to offer wine to those condemned to crucifixion in order to deaden their misery. This was offered to the Lord Jesus (Mt 27:34) but he refused it; for He wished to keep His mind clear to the last as He took upon Himself the sins of all mankind". [ Ronald E. Hawkins, Ed.D, D.Min. Adjunct Professor, Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary]

Jesus refused even one literal drink! Should tell us something about what Jesus thinks of alcohol.

 

No. The verse was not posted in context. It was picked out to support a view in contradiction to the rest of Scripture concerning the issue. That is a dangerous game for the person to be doing and for the people that such practice will lead astray.

Yes, it is likely the crowd was in a great mood by the time they ran out of wine. Running out of wine, in that culture, would have brought shame on the host. Jesus did not cause people to sin. He did not tempt people to sin.