Duggar Family

[annsni]

Where's the witness of Christ? Faith based? About family...?

It appears the faith is in the family system.

Sure, as Ann said, much is edited out. But it doesn't appear that they are witnessing Christ to their nationwide viewers. Only their immense family.

They may say something in a program or two about church or Christ, I don't know. But if one watches any of their programs where Christ is not witnessed, and doesn't see any where Christ is witnessed, guess what? to that one, the Duggar family is nothing more than a large family that is traveling the states, jumping out of airplanes, and doing other activities. A good family is all that person sees or knows.

But then again, we don't know about their contact with people in real life. They are well-known so I'm sure they talk to people on the streets, in the stores, etc. We don't know the running of day to day things.

 

[Scarlett O.]

As with any family in America, I'm sure there are positives and negatives in how they are raising their family. I know they are part of the quiverfull movement where it is implied the more children you have, the more godly and obedient you are.

The children are well mannered and well taken care of financially. The father and mother seem like sincere, good parents wanting the best for their children. Unfortunately, the number game plays into this. When you have a sign up sheet on your refrigerator where you can have an hour of one on one time blocked off each week to spend with either mom or dad, that's a problem, not to mention the almost playoff seeding format in having the older children take care of the younger ones (not assist the parents...they are "in charge"). Also, the fact the family "is" their church raises red flags, and that they have turned their children into actors.

God has given us the ability to reason and use common sense. He has given us knowledge in regards to reproduction. We KNOW that when a man has relations with a woman on certain days during the woman's cycle, barring any problems, the woman will get pregnant. This is God's design. If you have s*x during that time, God has designed you will get pregnant. Having relations during this time is not trusting God for the size of your family, it is testing Him. It's like walking across a freeway during rush hour and telling God "if you don't want me to get hit by a car, I won't...I'm trusting you".

Using birth control does not trump God's sovereignty. If He wanted you to have a child, no manner of birth control will prevent it. To plan every aspect of our lives but this one is irresponsible, IMO, particularly if the children's needs cannot be met (financial, physical AND emotional).

best ..... post ..... ever. (on this particular subject)

I enjoy watching this family. I like them. They seem to be happy, not in want, the kids are responsible and well-behaved, and they have good Biblical values. What's not to like?

A couple of things.

Webdog has already mentioned what makes me uncomfortable. This discomfort doesn't make me want to condemn this family, but it absolutely will not allow me to set them up as some sort of "Christian" standard.

• I watched as the oldest son and his wife discussed with the camera crew about their plans on having more children. The camera guy asked the both of them as they were sitting holding their baby daughter, "Are you guys going to have a lot of children like Michelle and Jim Bob?" They both quickly and vehemently shook their heads "No" and laughed a little. The camera guy asked, "How are you going to manage that?" The young guy said, "We are going to let God take care of that." And they both smiled a little. Then the camera guy asked, "But what does that mean that you are going to let God take care of it?" The smiles left their faces and the young man just stared at the ground and could not answer the question. That bothered me greatly. They did NOT want 19 children. Yet they had no plan. They have already unfortunately suffered a miscarriage and now are expecting a second child (third pregnancy).

• I just have to wonder - those few older high school age girls do everything. The cooking, the cleaning, the tending to the younger children, the scrubbing of the bathrooms, the entire housekeeping, and all the grunt work. I have heard Michelle say that she believes in gender-based "work". She doesn't believe in the boys doing any of that. She said that they should know how "just in case", but no more. One day, she taught the boys all of that the boys didn't like it and Michelle seemed to get a kick out of them being incompetent. The dad, who is a great guy in my opinion, took the girls and taught them the "boy work". He showed them how to change the oil and how to change a tire. These girls will more than likely marry young. They are all of marrying age now. Who is going to do all of the household work when they are gone? Let's look down the road in five years. Who is going to be doing all of that gender-based work, as Michelle believes?

As I said, I really like the dad. He seems genuine and takes up time with all of his children and treats them all with equal respect and love. He has high hopes for his children. He doesn't force Michelle to bear these children and has said that he leaves that ultimate decision up to her because it is her body. I am assuming by that they these two practice the rhythm method. The only thing that raises my eyebrow about him is that he is of the opinion that all of his children are going to have the same about of children the he and Michelle did. He said once if he could have 20 children and that if they could have a least a minimum of 10 children each, that he could have 200 grandchildren. He also showed all of the acreage around their property - it's at least 20 acres as I recall. He said that it was his wish that each child would live on the property on one of the acres and that his entire family would be with him always. That's just not conceivable, in my mind, nor would it be as pleasant as he is dreaming that it would be. Yet, I can't help but like the guy. He seems like a genuinely great dad.

I'm sorry that I can't say the same for the Michelle. I believe that she is sincere and really adores her children, but there is something that I cannot seem to put my finger on about her - she seems to enjoy the attention just a little too much. Maybe I am wrong, but the hair on the back of my neck goes up when I see her continually having more children and having to schedule time just to be the ones that she has. And she puts too much strain on her older daughters. I hope that she isn't sorely disappointed when one or more of them do not turn out to be a carbon copy of her.

With that being said, I think they are going to be all right and they should be commended for doing the great job they are doing. I will commend them with no problem. But I will not call them God's Standard of Faith.

 

[webdog]

Oh, see, I was SUPER fertile at that time and the timing was perfect and all tests showed perfect. We had all the ingredients at the perfect time. But no baby. So even doing everything perfect AND being highly fertile, it doesn't always mean a baby.

Of course there are always exceptions to the rule. God's timing is perfect even when ours is not, but it still does not contradict the "system" God has put into place in conceiving children that we have accurate knowledge of. It's not faith to have relations during the couple days of fertility each month and say "if God wants us to have a baby, we will". It's common sense.

 

[webdog]

I would like to ask this. Say there are two sets of parents. One couple has 20 children, the other couple work 60 hours each and have 2 children. Both couples employ the sign up sheet for one on one time to block out an hour each week to spend on "quality time". Let's also add both are believers, and the children appear to be well mannered and their needs cared for.

Is one more irresponsible than the other, and which one? If one is...why?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I would like to ask this. Say there are two sets of parents. One couple has 20 children, the other couple work 60 hours each and have 2 children. Both couples employ the sign up sheet for one on one time to block out an hour each week to spend on "quality time". Let's also add both are believers, and the children appear to be well mannered and their needs cared for.

Is one more irresponsible than the other, and which one? If one is...why?

It is obvious that the one with the larger family has less one-on-one interactions with his children.

Of course, why should a parent need to worry about even needing to spend quality time with their young children when they have older children to do that.

It appears that the parents are for baby making and the children are responsible for raising.

And yes, something is definitely wrong with that picture.

 

[annsni]

Of course there are always exceptions to the rule. God's timing is perfect even when ours is not, but it still does not contradict the "system" God has put into place in conceiving children that we have accurate knowledge of. It's not faith to have relations during the couple days of fertility each month and say "if God wants us to have a baby, we will". It's common sense.

That's very true. It's like standing on the Long Island Expressway during rush hour or on Christmas morning. Chances are much more likely you'll get hit during rush hour than Christmas morning.

 

[annsni]

It is obvious that the one with the larger family has less one-on-one interactions with his children.

Of course, why should a parent need to worry about even needing to spend quality time with their young children when they have older children to do that.

It appears that the parents are for baby making and the children are responsible for raising.

And yes, something is definitely wrong with that picture.

Are you being serious here? A parent works 60 hours a week has more time with their kids than a family who stays home with their 20? What kind of dynamic are YOU looking at??

 

[Jerome]

Where's the witness of Christ? Faith based? About family...?
It appears the faith is in the family system.

Oh, that "faith and family" quote wasn't the Duggars, it was their channel's latest sideshow family, the Browns.

The Duggars do occasionally mention Christ amist all their Quiverfull nonsense.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Are you being serious here? A parent works 60 hours a week has more time with their kids than a family who stays home with their 20? What kind of dynamic are YOU looking at??

Notice webdog's post. He said one on one time. and I said the same thing.


If a parent spends an hour a day, one on one with all of his 20 children, what does that add up to? That parent only getting 4 hours sleep. It would also mean that some children would have to be woke in the middle of the night just to spend an hour with their mother or father alone.

How real is that? How wise is that?

The fact is, if the children go to bed at a certain hour and sleep all night long, it is possible that Jim Bob or Michelle only have around 16 hours a day for their children. Break that down. 20 kids, 16 hours. One on one time would be less than an hour each.... actually, only about 48 minutes per child one on one... per day.

Now, lest look at the parents of 2 children. If they work 60 hours a week, and the children sleep on average 8 hours a night, that still leaves 4 hours a day that they can spend of quality time with the children. This could be as much as two hours each of one on one if necessary.

Yes, the parent of two has more time to spend one on one than the parent that has 20.

 

[menageriekeeper]

If a parent spends an hour a day, one on one with all of his 20 children, what does that add up to? That parent only getting 4 hours sleep. It would also mean that some children would have to be woke in the middle of the night just to spend an hour with their mother or father alone.

:laugh: I'm sorry but that is hilarious. Did you really spend an entire hour per day with just one child? Every day?????

My kids would be rolling on the floor doing their imataion of a slow, torturous death if I were even to suggest spending an ENTIRE hour alone. My kids are nosy, groupies. Where one is, you'll usually find another. They want to know what everyone is doing, when they are doing it and why the others want to do that.

We do quality time as we live: 20-30 minutes while cooking supper or cleaning the kitchen, the same amount spent on a subject they are having trouble with (we homeschool), an hour or so shopping for groceries, or more likely that same 20 minutes running to the store for milk. The point is, we don't go out of our way to spend x number of minutes 1 on 1 with our children. Those times happen plenty if you just let them.

I was one of two children and I really don't remember spending with one parent or another except in instances like above. Now there were times when one or the other of them had one of us kids off "helping" with something, but it was WORK, not child oriented "quality" time.

"Quality time" is to large families what "socialization" is to homeschoolers!

 

[Salty]

I would supposed that more accurately, it should average out to one hour a day. Some of the kids are twins - you might be able to score a double header with them. Pop may take the boys out on a hiking trip. Mom may take the girls out to shop, window or otherwise.

Of course, it would be impossible to spend one hour per day, per kid, so there must be some adjustments. In addition, the very young may be cared for by on the older sibling, esp when mom and dad are having quality time with some of the younger ones.

Bottom line, I think they are stretching Gods word about multiply.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I would supposed that more accurately, it should average out to one hour a day. Some of the kids are twins - you might be able to score a double header with them. Pop may take the boys out on a hiking trip. Mom may take the girls out to shop, window or otherwise.

Of course, it would be impossible to spend one hour per day, per kid, so there must be some adjustments. In addition, the very young may be cared for by on the older sibling, esp when mom and dad are having quality time with some of the younger ones.

Bottom line, I think they are stretching Gods word about multiply.

I agree on the stretching God's Word. But then I think Reheboam and his 88 children. He only had around 10 minutes to spend with one child alone if all children were to get equal one on one time. YIKES!!!

 

[Jerome]

boys don't walk around with private stuff boingling out their tops and if they do, it is generally considered quite repulsive rather than attractive.

Remember the Duggar definition of "private stuff" apparently includes the sleeval regions (arms).

 

[go2church]

Have all the kids you want, they seem to be able to support them without being a burden on anyone else.

What concerns me is the education, or lack there of really and the hard and fast gender roles that are laid out for them. It is without question that the girls will be married and birthing babies before too long, it is modeled, taught and expected. What if one of them wants to teach school or be a doctor?

The boys will do something else to support a family, though it will be mostly self taught or labor based which isn't bad, we need good laborers, but what if one of them wanted to explore space. This doesn't seem to be an option for them.

Almost a caste type system for them, this is your row to hoe now get busy.

 

[Gina B]

Remember the Duggar definition of "private stuff" apparently includes the sleeval regions (arms).

Jerome Jerome Jerome. Why on earth are you still talking about that family? I specifically wanted to discuss yours and how you may or may not be living up to my expectations of your Christian walk. The Duggar's can't talk back to you right now, but we can certainly talk to each other. Surely there is much more to be gained with both sides participating.

Can we get on with that please? :tongue3: Let's start with your seeming negativity. I would like you to be more positive and think that Christ would want you to word things better too. I also think that it would be more Christian of you to research some websites and maybe some books they could use to help the Duggar's live more up to your definition of right, then send that information to them.

If you can't do that, we need to talk about your unwillingness to help another person you think is doing wrong. After all, the scriptures say that if you see someone in a fault, go to them. They're pretty popular and if you're serious about wanting to help them, it's very probably that you could contact them. If you try and fail, let me know and I'll try to help you out after you get the stuff together and are ready to send it out. K?