'elect' ...in the OT I find these...
ISA 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine ELECT, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
ISA 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine ELECT, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
ISA 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine ELECT shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
ISA 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine ELECT shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Bachiyr: 972 ryxb Bachiyr (baw-kheer');
Word Origin: Hebrew, Noun Masculine
from (0977)
chosen, choice one, chosen one, elect (of God)
KJV Word Count (Bachiyr #972) chosen 8
elect 4
chose 1
In the doctrine of election they teach that some are picked and some are not, right? In the verses above it seems this is true. He picked Israel out of many nations and a made a nation for Himself, right?
I am searching this out..the last thread turned into a personal bashing thread..I hope we can discuss the scriptures about election without the personal attacks!
elect
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by awaken, Jun 4, 2013.
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MT 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the ELECT's sake those days shall be shortened.
MT 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very ELECT.
MT 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other *.
Since ELECT is speaking of Israel/Jews in the OT...would it be safe to say that these verses in Matt. also refer to the Jews/Israel? -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
In Matthew 24:30-31 this gathering is from all corners of heaven and earth - thus a universal gathering of His "elect" and it is Christ doing the gathering so it is not possible that Christ is the "elect" in that passage. Furthermore, it is not possible it refers to the nation of Israel as they are located only on earth and this refers to a gathering while he is still in the clouds of all the saved on earth and in heaven as Revelation 19:12-20 describes the very same event and there are saints accompanying him from heaven when he appears in the clouds.
In all of the above instances Christ is never called "the elect" not once. Rather those who are called the elect were chosen "in" Christ and so Christ is the sphere of election rather than the only individual of election.
He tells the Romans in regard to Jacob and Esau while in the womb one was personally chosen over the other according to the election of grace rather than according to personal individual actions good or bad (Rom. 9:11).
In all of these instances this election is "to salvation" as they are all found in salvation contexts. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
The plural demonstrates more than Christ is the "elect" as Paul says for the "elect's SAKES, that THEY...."
2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
There is also the "elect" Lady who has an "elect" sister
2Jo 1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2Jo 1:13 The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.
In regard to personal election in salvation contexts it those (plural) who are chosen - the elect. The sphere of election in regard to salvation is "in Christ" (Eph. 1:4) while the object of election in regard to salvation is "to salvation" (2 Thes. 2:13) -
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; - Col 3:12 KJV
So no it is not safe to assume that Matthew is speaking of Jews alone or national Israel.
The term elect is, as far as I can see, ALWAYS used to describe a group not individuals. (If someone can prove me wrong I will gladly accept the truth.) And refers to these groups that God has His covenant with, the OT Israel under the Mosaic Covenant, and now the Church under the New Covenant.
With a proper understanding of the New Covenant we see that God's focus is on the church who, through their right relationship with God though Christ, have been "grafted" into the elect remnant of national Israel. This grafting in has created an elect covenant body that could be accurately described as a "spiritual Israel" since we are elect based on our relationship to Christ, as the elect (1 Peter 2:6) and Christ as the fulfillment of Israel.
Because of this it makes no sense for God to turn back to the Old covenant, that has "vanished away" (Heb 8:13), and deal exclusively with the Jews in some future "tribulation period." -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
2Jo 1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2Jo 1:13 The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.
Notice John does not include himself in the "elect lady" but rather is the one writing "unto" that elect lady - "the elder UNTO"
Notice there is an "elect SISTER" which is meaningless unless theree is more than one.
Furthermore, salvation is not corporate but individual and the Thessalonians are told that they were chosen "TO salvation" but "THROUGH....beleif of the truth" (2 Thes. 2:13). There is no corporate belief but individual belief. -
Now v 13 I admit has me stumped. I forgot that one. :)
Question. Are you a Calvinist? -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I don't see scripture supporting the idea that certain people are arbitrarily picked by God, some to be saved some to be damned (considering the totality of scripture that is - If I only had Romans 9 I'd be a dogmatic Calvinist :smilewinkgrin:). Instead what I see is that salvation is always contingent upon personal faith, not "election" - whatever your definition.
Again, are you a Calvinist? I'm just asking cause I want to know where you are coming from. I personally don't care one way or the other. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
In Romans 9 God is working with the FALLEN clay of mankind not UNFALLEN clay as unfallen clay has no need of "MERCY" as "mercy" presumes already just condemnation. Fallen man is already of a mindset at enmity with God and already resistant to submission to God and freely so.
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I agree that damnation is the "default setting". Doesn't change the fact that God would have to choose to let them stay damned.
I was just asking so I could have a frame of reference on where you are coming from theologically. I would describe myself similarly. -
Ok...I see where my assumption could be wrong!
RO 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's ELECT? It is God that justifieth.
RO 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to ELECTion might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
RO 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the ELECTion of grace.
RO 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the ELECTion hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
RO 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes *: but as touching the ELECTion, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Election here is again speaking of God selecting some! -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
In order to get a cow to freely choose to eat horse meat over grass it takes a CREATIVE act of God to change his nature from grass eating animal to a meat eating animal. That is the new birth, it is God giving a NEW heart and a NEW spirit to love and choose light over darkness. The tree is known by its fruits, one must first make the tree good before its fruits can be good. Likewise, those who are sinners by nature and by choice are in bondage to their own nature and only a change of nature can produce a change of choice. That is why God must give him a NEW heart and a NEW spirit for him to freely choose light over darkness. Election is God's merciful choice to save some in spite of their cow like nature which will always freely chooses grass instead of meat. Election is based on grace "election of grace" (Rom. 11:5-6) and displays God's "mercy" not his JUSTICE! If he were to act purely out of justice NONE WOULD BE SAVED because ALL are condemned ALREADY. NONE left to themselves would ever choose meat (light). Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the lepord his spots, If so then you can change your nature that controls your will.
You agree with me because you agree that "damnation is the 'default setting" and thus you agree that man is already freely predisposed to darkness and nothing forces him to continue in that choice as that is his choice by nature and the issue of choice is really an issue that is determined by nature just as it is in regard to the cow's choice to choose freely between grass and meat. Nothing coerces him to reject the meat but his own nature. That is precisely the teaching of scripture in regard to man's fallen nature (Rom. 8:7-8; 3:10-18; etc.).
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COL 3:12 Put on therefore, as the ELECT of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Again..this is showing God chosing
1TH 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your ELECTion of God.
1TI 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the ELECT angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality
I have a question about the elect angels...did they have a choice to follow satan? -
But that choosing to surrender to God never occurs without the conviction of the Holy Spirit. It isn't something that we can conjure up create artificially.
And yes we are "born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." But also we must believe. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
You agree that conviction is the work of the Spirit not our work. You agree that regeneration is the work of the Spirit not our work. The product of that work is "belief of the truth." Paul says there is a difference between "godly" and "worldly" sorrow (2 Cor. 7:10). One leads to death while the other is EFFECTUAL to salvation. It is the Holy Spirit's work that make it effectual to salvation.
The gospel is preached to all men irregardless because (1) all men are sinners; (2) all men need salvation (3) the only way to know God's elect is their response to the gospel - 1 Thes. 1:4-5.
The effectual call is the Holy Spirit empowering the gospel as it goes forth so that it becomes God's CREATIVE WORD that brings light out of darkness. This is exactly how Paul describes it in 2 Cor. 4:6 in a direct analogy with Genesis 1:2-3. Hence, not all men are called in this manner as Paul explicitly states in 1 Cor. 1:26-31. Because ALL who are "called" in this sense are also predestinated, justified and glorified - Rom. 8:29-30. That is not true of all men who hear the Gospel (Jn. 10:26).
That is the meaning of "grace" unmerited or not conditioned upon anything found in the object of grace - salvation is by "grace" and faith is "of grace" (Rom. 4:16) and the work of God (Jn. 6:29) which Christ is the "author" and the "finisher" of and what He begins he never fails to accomplish (Philip. 1:6). God is not bound to save anyone or that would invalidate the meaning of "saved BY GRACE." God is glorified in justice as in salvation (2 Cor. 2:13-15).