Elevation of women in the church and in society

[Analgesic]

C4K, people who twist scripture to fit their agenda DESERVE to be judged. When someone embraces the egalitarian view of marriage, they do so with NO biblical evidence. As I have cited earlier, even a cursory examination of the Bible establishes 'gender roles'. Don't believe me? Then why do so many skeptics of Christianity attack it on the basis of it being founded on a sexist, patriarchal book? They see the glaring examples of sexism ALL through the Bible. From Solomon's harem, to the OT accounts of women being given in marriage via arranged marriages, almost like 'purchasing' a wife, to the very civil Law that God established for Israel, to even the NT of Paul telling the woman to be silent in the church, to saying that they should cover their heads (a sign of submission), etc.

I'll take the Bible for my authority over 'life experience', thank you.



Is Christ and the Church a team?

Indeed, people who twist scripture to fit their agenda deserve to be judged, however, that does not mean that they deserve to be judged by YOU. Simply because someone deserves a rebuke does not mean that you're the one to offer it.

Timothy writes to tell youth to "be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity", but he's also careful to add: "Do not rebuke an older man, but exhort him as a father, younger men as brothers". Though your zeal is commendable, it seems your attitude and tone have not met such a Godly standard here.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I personally would be uncomfortable working with a female supervisor.

Again, this is nothing but pure prejudice. I have had many bosses of both genders. All (well, most) qualified. In fact, my company announced a new CMO/EVP today, who is a female with years of experience.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

"Do not rebuke an older man, but exhort him as a father, younger men as brothers".

I resemble that older man remark!

 

[TLB]

my 2 cents... ok...maybe more...

if less mothers made the choice to work...less mothers would have to work.

i feel when you have children, you should be the one to raise them. not the day care that many get caged in, not the schools and all the "things" kids can do to fill time. what good things can a 6yr old really learn in a room full of other 6yr olds? i really wonder how people can think that their children will grow up and have their values when they (children) spend more time with strangers than with their family.

lol...and some of you have way too much time on your hands. i recommend a second job, more children or you can do volunteer work.

 

[Dale-c]

Again, this is nothing but pure prejudice.

I suppose that opposing women pastor's is just prejudice as well?

It is not use arguing with someone that doesn't believe the Bible applies to us.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I suppose that opposing women pastor's is just prejudice as well?

It is not use arguing with someone that doesn't believe the Bible applies to us.

Who was talking about pastors? We were talking about female bosses.

Who said the Bible doesn't apply to us? I said you need to take it in historical context, but if I don't agree with your interpretation, then I don't take it seriously? Get real.

 

[ShotGunWillie]

Again, this is nothing but pure prejudice. I have had many bosses of both genders. All (well, most) qualified. In fact, my company announced a new CMO/EVP today, who is a female with years of experience.

Women aren't to be in a position of authority over men.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Women aren't to be in a position of authority over men.

Where are you getting that from? The bible talks about authority in the church. It says nothing about employment situations. Some of you guys just distort scripture to support your own biases.

If your company hires a female in a position of authority over you, would you quit?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I wonder what Deborah, the prophetess and judge of Israel would say about this debate

And Deborah a prophetesse, the wife of Lapidoth, shee iudged Israel at that time. And shee dwelt vnder the palme tree of Deborah, betweene Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came vp to her for iudgement. And shee sent and called Barak the sonne of Abinoam, out of Kedesh-Naphtali, and said vnto him, Hath not the Lord God of Israel commaunded, saying, Goe, and drawe toward mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali, and of the children of Zebulun? And I wil draw vnto thee to the riuer Kishon, Sisera the captaine of Iabins army, with his charets, and his multitude, and I will deliuer him into thine hand. And Barak said vnto her, If thou wilt goe with me, then I wil goe: but if thou wilt not goe with mee, then I will not goe. And she said, I wil surely go with thee, notwithstanding the iourney that thou takest, shal not be for thine honor: for the Lord shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, & went with Barak to Kedesh.
- Judges 4:4-9 (AV1611)

 

[Jim1999]

For those who care to actually read the Bible, there are quite a few areas where My Lord God used those lowly women to do a man's job. Oh, I remember that prayer when we talked about going to the dangerous mission field back in the 40's and 50's: "Here am I, Lord; send her!"

Many tend to forget Phoebe as well, blessed of Paul, a deaconess, in the New Testament church....

If it weren't for the women in many churches to-day, they would be empty! We seldom ever hear of the Men's Missionary Society in church. The Sunday school movement was started by a man, but manned mostly by women.

God bless the women. Often the first "ameners" (is that a word?) in the church.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[mcdirector]

I have watched you guys babble on, but once again some of you are taking bits and pieces and not the Bible in it's entirity. Women could feel quite worthless (and it's no wonder that they do frequently) when these kinds of discussions go on.

Praise God that Jesus included women in his ministry and that we do have the Bible from cover to cover as (praise God again) the previous posters have pointed out.

Based on what some of you have said, no man should work in the media center at our church because my asst and I are both women and we do have authority - It takes 60 volunteers to keep the place running week in and week out. We need those men and they seem quite happy to check books in and out and to shelve - to read stories to children, but I've never had a man offer to take my position as director.

OR my sweet husband should not be working in the Children's area as a 5th grade director because the Asst to the Children's Minister is a woman. I think they call her director too. She gets paid though. I'm just a volunteer. Ron is an excellent SS teacher. Sheri is an excellent staff member.

Lots of intricacies here . . .

 

[Rufus_1611]

I wonder what Deborah, the prophetess and judge of Israel would say about this debate

And Deborah a prophetesse, the wife of Lapidoth, shee iudged Israel at that time. And shee dwelt vnder the palme tree of Deborah, betweene Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came vp to her for iudgement. And shee sent and called Barak the sonne of Abinoam, out of Kedesh-Naphtali, and said vnto him, Hath not the Lord God of Israel commaunded, saying, Goe, and drawe toward mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali, and of the children of Zebulun? And I wil draw vnto thee to the riuer Kishon, Sisera the captaine of Iabins army, with his charets, and his multitude, and I will deliuer him into thine hand. And Barak said vnto her, If thou wilt goe with me, then I wil goe: but if thou wilt not goe with mee, then I will not goe. And she said, I wil surely go with thee, notwithstanding the iourney that thou takest, shal not be for thine honor: for the Lord shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, & went with Barak to Kedesh.
- Judges 4:4-9 (AV1611)

I imagine she would start talking about effeminate men and how Israel was so evil that there wasn't a man among 'em worthy to judge and worthy to lead in battle and that this thread contains similar elements.

 

[Rufus_1611]

For those who care to actually read the Bible, there are quite a few areas where My Lord God used those lowly women to do a man's job. Oh, I remember that prayer when we talked about going to the dangerous mission field back in the 40's and 50's: "Here am I, Lord; send her!"

Many tend to forget Phoebe as well, blessed of Paul, a deaconess, in the New Testament church....

If it weren't for the women in many churches to-day, they would be empty! We seldom ever hear of the Men's Missionary Society in church. The Sunday school movement was started by a man, but manned mostly by women.

God bless the women. Often the first "ameners" (is that a word?) in the church.

Cheers,

Jim

I care to read the Bible and the Bible doesn't say anything about Phoebe being a deaconess.

"I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:" - Romans 16:1​

 

[EdSutton]

If it weren't for the women in many churches to-day, they would be empty!

So true, unfortunately! AND so sad! :tear:

Ed

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I imagine she would start talking about effeminate men and how Israel was so evil that there wasn't a man among 'em worthy to judge and worthy to lead in battle and that this thread contains similar elements.

Do you think her husband had to submit to her role as judge?

Did God support her in her rebellious role?

 

[ShotGunWillie]

If your company hires a female in a position of authority over you, would you quit?

Would consider it.

I imagine she would start talking about effeminate men and how Israel was so evil that there wasn't a man among 'em worthy to judge and worthy to lead in battle and that this thread contains similar elements.

If my memory serves me correctly, she wasn't the first chosen to be the judge over Israel was she, wasn't someone else chosen before her and he backed out and asked her to handle it all. I could be wrong here.

The only deaconess in mentioned in the Bible had an odd name, for the life of me I can't remember.

 

[Cutter]

The word deaconess is not even found in the Bible. Of course, I'm referring to the KJV.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Do you think her husband had to submit to her role as judge?

Yes.

Did God support her in her rebellious role?

She wasn't rebellious, the men of Israel were.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

She led men.

That is not God's will.

Can God honour disobedience to His word, no matter what the excuse? Where do you find God commanding her to lead because there were no men to be judge?

 

[Jim1999]

Please explain the Greek word, Diakonos, translated in KJV as "servant" in regards to Phoebe(Rom 16:1), and not as deacon's wives, as shown in another passage.

You say you use the Bible, and I agree, let's use the Bible, but translate it correctly, please.

Cheers,

Jim