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Embattled N.C. pastor resigns, says he was misunderstood

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by gb93433, May 11, 2005.

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  1. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Not enough of them! :eek:

    [​IMG]
     
    #21 Craigbythesea, May 16, 2005
  2. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    These things are even happening among the church going people because those people do not know their Bible and who God is. They have had more input from the world then from their Bible. I have actually been in services and people will tell me why they disagreed with the preacher. So the preacher communicated nothing. Then I would tell the person why I agreed or disagreed. I did some work for a man who went to the same church I did at the time and after one of the sermons he told me how he disagreed with the pastor. Well I did too. The pastor told the congregation how it was a sin to drink wine. The man asked me how I felt the pastor would deal with Jesus. I took the man to 1 Cor . 8 and dealt with him on the basis of not being an offense. The man had several cases of beer in his home piled up. He threw everyone out in front of me.

    If we tell people out convictions that just may tell them what we believe but fail to teach what scripture teaches. People have little trouble making a decision when they know what the Bible teaches in its context and why.

    The problem is when I pastored I did not have much time to spend on problems. People are going to hell. When we realize that then we will understand the urgency of the message and how little time we have. Those issues are smokescreens overshadowing the real problem. Preach on the real problem. That is where the preacher preparation begins.

    I have never seen a person who was growing in love with Jesus ever have a problem with those issues. Just ask a prostitute who comes to Christ. A few years ago I led a stripper and a man who played in bars to Christ. A few months earlier he had played his instrument in the Superbowl. Both of them left those jobs due to their own conviction before God. However at the time they wanted the positive support of Christians as they left. They asked us to pray for them as they went to tell the people they were associated with. There were a lot of things that were unknown to them as they decided to leave. The big one was finances. Today, both of them are dynamic witnesses for Christ. The man leads the music and is in charge of discipleship in a growing church and doing a great job.We must give people time to wrestle with God.

    To preach on those issues is to treat the congregation as small children. When my daughter was a little child she knew those things to be wrong. By the time she was in fifth grade she debated those issues in class when they had debates in the course of their study.

    I think the people who will stand by and listen to those issues tells something about their maturity. Why should we be preaching the obvious when we should be dealing with the tough issues that people do not understand?

    I have seen people who have spent years in church and have never shared their faith. I also led a person to Christ a few years ago and within an hour he called many of his friends to come over for a party just so he could tell them what I told him. Within the week he led some of his friends to Christ.

    Very few Christians know little about the purpose of why Matthew was written and why there are two demoniacs in Matthew and one in Mark and Luke.

    The Mormon church is growing at about 200 to 250 per week and they are getting mostly Baptists and Catholics. Why? Because they do not know their Bible. Just because a pastor speaks on an issue dopes not mean the people will learn anything or hold that same conviction.
     
    #22 gb93433, May 16, 2005
  3. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    Not enough of them! </font>[/QUOTE]How can you list yourself as "Conservative Baptist" in your profile and hold to this opinion? Perhaps "conservative" means something different on the west coast than it does here in the heartland?
     
    #23 Pastor_Bob, May 16, 2005
  4. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed New Member

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    Craigbythesea,

    Have you ever preached that a man and woman living together, and unmarried, is a sin?

    If so, you have just entered a part of the political realm.

    Everything we do in church is part of the political realm in one form or another.

    Have you ever taught that atheism is wrong?

    Have you ever taught that homosexuality is a sin?

    Have you ever taught that divorce is wrong?

    So many things spoken of in scripture are also a part of conservative vs. liberal politics.

    If our pulpits are silent on sin, then what good are they?

    BTW, gb93433, you take 1 Corinthians 8 out of context to prove against drinking alcohol. I have yet to see someone drink wine after offering it to idols. I would be offended by that as well, but that has nothing to do with drinking alcohol in general.
     
    #24 Bro. James Reed, May 16, 2005
  5. mcgyver

    mcgyver New Member

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    Originally posted by Bro.James Reed:

    My point exactly!

    Our Lord told us to be the "salt of the earth"; He told us to go out "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you".......

    When I look at the New Testament, I see the apostles preaching the Word of God irregardless of political climate. I see them rebuking false and deceptive practices....and calling Sin..."Sin".

    If we think that we can stay behind the "stained glass windows" of our churches, and ignore what is happening in our world; IMHO we are truly deceived and have become non-effective in the work of the kingdom.

    The apostles were told by the Sanhedrin not to preach Jesus Christ, and they responded by telling the Sanhedrin that they were there to please God and not men.....Should we not do the same?
     
    #25 mcgyver, May 16, 2005
  6. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    Thank God that the pre-Revolutionary preachers were willing to speak out on the political issues of their day... to include calling the names of political opponents to liberty.
     
    #26 Scott J, May 16, 2005
  7. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    Does anyone know if this man ever said that a member must vote for Bush?

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with a pastor seeing that one politician or another holds immoral views and naming him as someone to oppose from the pulpit.

    John Kerry made moral decisions in the public forum regarding his stands on social issues. A pastor has every right and duty to oppose him.

    Where are the left wingers when a pastor's free speech rights are being violated? What ever happened to disagreeing with what someone says but being willing to die for their right to say it?... or does that only apply when someone submerges a crucifix in a jar of urine calling it art and asking for government funding?

    This man said that people should resign, right? So what? Did the church take action to remove the members? Is there a law somewhere that says that a pastor must never say something that offends people in the congregation?
     
    #27 Scott J, May 16, 2005
  8. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I do not use that passage to directly attack the issue of drinking wine. My point is that we are to do nothing to be an offense to the gospel.

    1 Cor. 8:13, "Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble."

    I think one could plug most any type of word in place of food.

    The funniest thing is that the places where I have seen the most drunks and the greatest poverty is in the very places where it is preached against the most. At one time my parents were grape farmers and we can't stand the taste of wine.
     
    #28 gb93433, May 16, 2005
  9. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Following on their heels were the Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, Amana community, the Oneida community and some others. The preachers got those people to sound like barking dogs too.
     
    #29 gb93433, May 16, 2005
  10. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    What else should you expect from believers.

    It doesn't take one minute to prepare sermons to give out opinion about a political candidate. I would bet that pastor could have found enough problems in that church and locally to last a lifetime for them to work on. I am certain that he could have found enough to do as far as knocking on doors and leding people to Jesus.

    Right in the pastors back yard is a hot bed of KKK activity. Why not preach on that first? He was living in an area of hate. He is not too far from the city where they had a witch for mayor. He isn't too clean himself when he got a lawyer. There are so many going to hell that I just don't have time to baby people and tell them how to vote. There are deeper things than that to deal with.

    Can you imagine missionaries goin to Muslim countries and standing up at the mosque and preachiung against Islam. He probably wouldn't lasy but maybe a few minutes. Sometimes there is a case for wisdom to gain entry first into the lives of others.

    We cannot condemn the world. Jesus didn't, why should we. We should expect what they have and deliver. The church should be different. The only people Jesus ever condemned were the religious folks--the Pharisees. Too often the church bad mouths the world when it has enough troubles of its own. We cannot exalt Jesus and worship him by tearing down the world. We should see the plight of the world and have great compassion on them as Jesus did.

    I cannot think of one time where Jesus tore down the world except to condemn the Pharisees. The world is blind and tearing them down will not enlighten them--they are blind. Tearing them down creates an adversarial relationship at the expense of the gospel. The Bible talks about loving those who hate you.

    I have not read anything about what kind of an investigation the SBC is conducting other than going in there to help the church out by preaching while they get another pastor.
     
    #30 gb93433, May 16, 2005
  11. rivers1222

    rivers1222 Member

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    Wouldn't it be great if both of the major parties nominations went to Baptists! No wait. One would be pre-trib and one would be Post-trib. One would be KJVO and one would be MV. Then if the preacher backed the candidate you had a difference with, you would be asked to leave.
     
    #31 rivers1222, May 16, 2005
  12. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    There are things to deal with in Iowa and Missouri too.

    I grew up 35 miles from Waynesville. My family goes back at least 7 generations in the mountains of western NC... I am offended at your insenuations. KKK? Sure preach against such ignorant non-sense... but an "area of hate"? I don't think so... and since I have relatives in the area to include Waynesville, I recognize your generalization as absolutely and profoundly "ignorant" of the majority of those people.
     
    #32 Scott J, May 16, 2005
  13. mcgyver

    mcgyver New Member

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    Well, let's see here......The KKK is a Pseudo-Political organization, they have an agenda; soooo......if we're not going to preach on politics we shouldn't preach about the agenda of the KKK either....Correct? :rolleyes:
     
    #33 mcgyver, May 16, 2005
  14. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    A few thoughts
    </font>
    • Each Baptist Church is an independent autonomous body</font>
    • The preacher must preach to please God and not man</font>
    • He is also answerable to his congregation as to whether his preaching is pleasing to God or not</font>
    • Preaching "politics" is a violation of IRS code, not the law</font>
    • Church members suing one another is a violation of Scripture</font>
    It is likely we don't have all the facts. IMO, it is likely that the media bias tends to be against the pastor's side of the story. I haven't followed the story closely enough to form an accurate opinion of what exactly happened.

    I object to a preacher preaching party politics. What I think matters little in a local church case other than my own. Ultimately what matters is that the preacher will answer to God in the future and the local congregation in the present. The "legal" violation is loss of tax-exempt status. If church & pastor think what they are preaching is the truth, they ought to reject the IRS status and preach what they believe.
     
    #34 rlvaughn, May 16, 2005
  15. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Out here on the West Coast, where many Baptist Pastors have earned a Ph.D. in addition to their earned Th.D., we know the difference between conservative politics and conservative theology, and we do not confuse the two. We don’t preach politics, abortion, science fiction, or other irrelevant things—we preach the Word of God with the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

    My pastor is an exceptionally well educated man who, in his post-doctoral studies, is specializing in the Gospel According to Luke, so of course he is a democrat, but he doesn’t take his politics in the pulpit.

    [​IMG]
     
    #35 Craigbythesea, May 17, 2005
  16. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Conservative Politics = Conservative giving to others in accord with a liberal teaching of the Bible.

    Conservative Theology = Liberal giving to others in accord with the literal teaching of the Bible.

    [​IMG]
     
    #36 Craigbythesea, May 17, 2005
  17. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Liberal Politics = Liberal giving to others in accord a literal teaching of the Bible.

    Liberal Theology = Liberal giving to others in accord with a liberal teaching of the Bible.

    [​IMG]
     
    #37 Craigbythesea, May 17, 2005
  18. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Republican evangelical Christians = Mostly white evangelical Christians

    Democratic evangelical Christians = Mostly black evangelical Christians

    [​IMG]
     
    #38 Craigbythesea, May 17, 2005
  19. Taxman

    Taxman New Member

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    Give the guy a break. He spoke boldly of his convictions that a political platform didn't lined up with Biblical teaching. The media is in the business of sensationalizing issues for profits. He resigned which now leaves the church to decide it's direction and values. Pray for them and the pastor. That should be our response.
     
    #39 Taxman, May 17, 2005
  20. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68 Active Member

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    Why?

    Patrick
     
    #40 Dragoon68, May 17, 2005
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