Eph 1:5

Oh He is a Tyrant that is what He calls Himself.

john. </font>[/QUOTE]Tyrants don't save worthless, dead in tresspasses and sins, people.

Not only is YOUR reference, (which I see none) heretical, but is simply not truth.

 

Obviously

You cannot come to a conclusion when you "have no idea", and it is no wonder you fall for the dogmatisms of Calvin.

God saves all who will answer HIS CALL to repentence. You would like to limit His call. I can find no limits to the call of God, you do, sad to say.

Your ideals take away from God's Sovereignty by making HIS CALLING limited.

Your's and others mistakes are that yoy believe the Sovereignty of God is limited to everything being "predecided", which is NOT predestination.

God's Sovereignty is beyond man's control, so therefore, limited atonement cannot existentiously exist.

The ONLY limit to God's atoning power is that time in point set by that Sovereign God which you or I have no power over, except to reject His call.

You can argue all you want, but then you argue against God Himself,... there is neither shadow of turning in Him. IOW, no fault.

Why don't you just allow God to define and interpret His Bible? Instead, you have let men of corrupt minds do that for you.

Me too!!

 

Obviously

You cannot come to a conclusion when you "have no idea", and it is no wonder you fall for the dogmatisms of Calvin.
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I can based on what you said. I did not draw a final conclusion, for you said little. What you did say showed your lack of study.


God saves all who will answer HIS CALL to repentence.
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i agree. But did i say God did not call all?


You would like to limit His call.
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ooops..another mislead....I never said this...never will


I can find no limits to the call of God, you do, sad to say.
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nor can i. It sound like to me you do believe as calvin. but why did you say I limit???????


Your ideals take away from God's Sovereignty by making HIS CALLING limited.
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SEE..there you go again. What book did you read this in? Not calvin!!!! so tell me....you really have not read calvin...have you? it was a guess of mine at 1st....now you just backed me up. Thanks


Your's and others mistakes are that yoy believe the Sovereignty of God is limited to everything being "predecided", which is NOT predestination.
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How is it that you can read my mind? If you think this is my mind...check the radio...it may be coming from the radio. Its not me. I never said this.

Now..if you are saying...my mistake is that i believe in predestination...then you are right...and you have read my mind....but i do not think its a mistake to believe this. How do you do this mind reading anyway?

BTW..i believe in the Sovereignty of God too.


Sovereignty of God is beyond man's control, so therefore, limited atonement cannot existentiously exist.
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hello!! Sovereignty of God. YES..that means God is in control. i'm so glad you now see it. I think you are a calvinist.

ooops you put a "therefore" and STOPPED God. Now why did you have to do that? You were doing so well up to that point...then you added...YOUR LOGIC.


The ONLY limit to God's atoning power is that time in point set by that Sovereign God which you or I have no power over, except to reject His call.
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speak for yourself. I never limit Gods will.


You can argue all you want, but then you argue against God Himself,...
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I do trust His Word. It seems to me..you want to fit God into you pocket...and mold Him as you would like to see Him. As for me..if its in Gods Word...i believe it. Maybe i do not understand it....but God said it...i'll take it. You can just leave your god in your pocket...My God is Much Bigger


there is neither shadow of turning in Him. IOW, no fault.
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Aman..so lets not try to turn Him. You are wasting your time.


Why don't you just allow God to define and interpret His Bible?
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i do.


Instead, you have let men of corrupt minds do that for you.
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ooops there you go again. You seem bint on telling me what i think....and how i have taken on my studies. I just did not see you in the room with me any night as i study the Bible...prayed.......cried. I never once ran into you at 3-4 oclock in the morning...while walking down my dark hallway...up from 10 hours of study on ONE word. I didn't see you in the office with me and many pastors..asking...looking for answers. I did not see you at my church looking at me...watching to see if i was being brainwashed. How is it you think you know me? Why do you say i have a corrupt mind? aaaaw wait...your the guy with the red hair and the funny tie. ok..now i remember.

Me too!! </font>[/QUOTE]Good!!

now...write some more and tell me what i think.

In Christ...James

 

not to pick you ...but i have to say...read this again...

"Sovereignty of God is beyond man's control, so therefore, limited atonement cannot existentiously exist.

BTW..just so you will know
I have never expressed my views on this forum on limited atonement. I just do not see the need to make crazy statements like the one above. For limited atonement places God in control.

consider this sir. God has so much power...is so much in control...is over everything that it could be that God just made you 10 mins ago...with all the thoughts of yesterday in your head.

IN Christ...James

 

NOPE! just refuting a false doctrine through the use of sound reasoning!

 

That belief system would make God a liar, that He is NOT.

 

I can't, too many of the words are mispelled!

"bint" should read "bent"

 

NOPE! just refuting a false doctrine through the use of sound reasoning! </font>[/QUOTE]I fully understand your reasoning, but the proper way to begin any letter is with a main topic and a specific subject, which Paul did, to a specific person or peoples, which Paul also did/ saints, and how a person is a saint, why they are saints, and in Whom they are become saints.

Your ideal places God at opposites with Himself, he is no respector of persons, but He DID fore-ordain specific POSITIONS. That is where your theology is messed up, you confuse specific people with specific positions.

 

Regarding Ephesians 1:1-14, God's signature is not on that part of Paul's letter. The words in question are those of PAUL, and not GOD. Most of the Passage it is man praising God, not God speaking to man! So your confusion stems from your false belief that the whole of the bible is God speaking! THAT is not, according to Jesus, a correct assumption, because in John 17:20 He says I pray not only for these but also for those who through their teaching will come to believe in me. Ephesians is PAUL the Apostle TEACHING! So you are quite simply wrong to declare that every word in the bible are God's words.

 

NOPE! just refuting a false doctrine through the use of sound reasoning! </font>[/QUOTE]I fully understand your reasoning, but the proper way to begin any letter is with a main topic and a specific subject, which Paul did, to a specific person or peoples, which Paul also did/ saints, and how a person is a saint, why they are saints, and in Whom they are become saints.

Your ideal places God at opposites with Himself, he is no respector of persons, but He DID fore-ordain specific POSITIONS. That is where your theology is messed up, you confuse specific people with specific positions. </font>[/QUOTE]Vs 1 and 2 are Paul's greeting to the Ephesians, then in verses 3-12 Paul describes the mystery of the Church and of Salvation...his topic. That seems to follow your rules to a 'T'.

 

Hello Salamander.

Not only is your reply wrong but your reference for calling me a heretic, which I see none, will be wrong. :cool:
God is a Despot and calls Himself such. 1 Peter 2:1 I believe.
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.

The word "Lord" is despoten in the Greek. The English word despot [a ruler with absolute power] comes from it.
The word refers to the absolute sovereignty of God and at 2 Peter 2:1 it says the false teachers and false prophets are denying that it is God that is the absolute Despot of the universe. :cool: A bit like you are doing. :cool:

The Despot reigns with the full meaning of Despot. He bought us. He owns us He can do as He pleases with us.

God is Sovereign.

john.

 

I can't, too many of the words are mispelled!

"bint" should read "bent" </font>[/QUOTE]Hey....this was much better then most i send. Some of the ones i send... i can't read MYSELF.

some day i need to start checking before sending...till then...learn greek. Why do i say that? well..it has to be easier to read then my writings

BTW..thanks for the education


does this mean i passed?

 

That belief system would make God a liar, that He is NOT. </font>[/QUOTE]how so?

 

Arminians trying to explain the Soveriegnty of God is better than reading the comics! lol...

 

Here, Let me try!

God said of Himself, "I AM that I AM".

Seems to me, God establishes His own Sovereignty! Arminians need not attempt to explain it, it is a sovereign FACT! Calvinists waste there time trying to make it fit their doctrines.

 

Wow, that's amazing insight Wes. Please Don't explain it. Sovereign... over destinies also! It's a sovereign FACT remember. Sovereign over choice, faith, and grace, it's a sovereign FACT.

 

No rc, you are once again adding to scripture by removing the FACT that God created man to have autonomy of thought and deed. That is, God made man in HIS image, having the abilities, though limited as man is, to choose within the realm that God's creation allows man.

Yes it is a sovereign fact that Man is made in the image of God! Now deal with that!

Man's God given sovereignty includes choosing from the possibilities that God allows for His creation, and God said, "I put before you Life and Death, Choose life" God gives man the sovereign choice of life or death! God carries out our choice, but we make the choice!

 

God created man to have autonomy of thought and deed

Proverbs 20:24 24 A man's steps are from the LORD; how then can man understand his way?

Proverbs 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his steps.

Proverbs 16:1 The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD.

 

You don't understand autonomy do you Wes. Self Governing... Only one can be self governing, that is God. THAT is sovereignty. Only ONE can be sovereign. Please LEARN from your mistakes, I get tired of correcting you.

 

WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THIS?????

i about spit my coke out all over my computer...when i read this line.

I tell you what wes...the more you say...the more i wonder

"Man's God given sovereignty"...that is not only not in the Bible...it does not make sence. If you have sovereignty...you answer to NO ONE.

Laying the debate aside...
Only God is in full control. Sovereignty is NEVER used of man. Even those that hold to freewill...would never say this.