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Ergun Caner controversy
- Thread starter Dale-c
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Don't you think that every organization makes mistakes but the real issue is trust? Once that is broken it is very difficult to mend.
Except for the last post of mine, where have I not kept to the facts.
The question is, why are Ankerberg and Giesler defending the indefensible?
That fact leads to the question, do they have anything to gain?
Abdul Saleeb means servant of the cross. Why did Caner state that he debated a fellow Christian, one who has written books with Geisler and Sproul?
Who is Abdul Saleeb? Is this his real name or is it a pseudonym?
Does he exist? Given Caner's statement that he debated him and given the reality that Caner is making things up, this is a reasonable question.
What is confusing?
Caner presented numerous falsehoods that have been documented using his own video/audio messages. Where is the confusion?
He debated Abdul Saleeb, according to his own words.
Abdul Saleeb wrote books with Geisler and Sproul.
Geisler is defending Caner stating that Caner has been slandered and libeled.
Ankerberg stated that Caner's testimony is completely true.
What is confusing about any of this? These are the facts.
So . . .
Why are Geisler and Ankerberg defending the indefensible?
Who is Abdul Saleeb?
Why did Caner state that he debated a fellow Christian (Abdul Saleeb)?
I would submit that it is Geisler and Ankerberg that are muddling the waters. Have you addressed them?
A couple of notations.
First, I do believe Caner should step down pending a full investigation... and I tend to believe he should be removed from LBTS.
However, there are a couple of points I wish to make. First, it is natural to defend people you love. If any of you have gone through seeing a fellow brother or sister go through anything like this, your first reaction is to defend them because you love them. Liberty, Ankerberg, and Geisler's defense is understandable.
However, to question their integrity is also over board. Right now, I think Liberty is investigating the situation and will take the appropriate steps. Yes, they made mis-steps, however they are going through the proper steps now. I have some strong disagreements with Liberty on many issues, but I love them and trust them to be men and women of integrity.
Even if the decision is different than what I hope, I know God is still just and to be glorified.
First, I do believe Caner should step down pending a full investigation... and I tend to believe he should be removed from LBTS.
However, there are a couple of points I wish to make. First, it is natural to defend people you love. If any of you have gone through seeing a fellow brother or sister go through anything like this, your first reaction is to defend them because you love them. Liberty, Ankerberg, and Geisler's defense is understandable.
However, to question their integrity is also over board. Right now, I think Liberty is investigating the situation and will take the appropriate steps. Yes, they made mis-steps, however they are going through the proper steps now. I have some strong disagreements with Liberty on many issues, but I love them and trust them to be men and women of integrity.
Even if the decision is different than what I hope, I know God is still just and to be glorified.
I love LU too!
I hope they do the right thing.
As to Ankerberg, he had damaged his credibility. I now wonder what else I have watched on his show that is not true. If he can state that the testimony of Caner is completely true when it is easily shown that it is not, then he raises questions about the veracity of his programs.
I hope they do the right thing.
As to Ankerberg, he had damaged his credibility. I now wonder what else I have watched on his show that is not true. If he can state that the testimony of Caner is completely true when it is easily shown that it is not, then he raises questions about the veracity of his programs.
Some people are more easily convinced than other. Sometimes this is a good thing and sometimes it is not. I am appreciative of those who wait for facts while at the same time I appreciate those who make sure the facts are not ignored.
Unfortunately, most folks who fall into either category do so for the wrong reasons. That has been already been proved in this tiresome thread.
I pray the right things will be done and I realize that no matter the outcome, the God that I have faith in, will still be just as sovereign and just as loving as before.
I listened to Ergun Caner’s message given at Prestonwood Baptist Church in 2001 as replayed on Focus on the Family. I wanted to hear his testimony in full without clips and cuts.
Ergun Caner stated the following:
I was born in Sweden.
I was raised in Turkey.
I was trained in Islamic Jihad to do what the terrorist did on 9/11.
I was like a preacher’s kid.
I was taught to believe that Americans hated me.
I came to America in 1978.
I arrived in Brooklyn.
I spoke broken English.
I went to a revival at the invitation of a friend.
I was saved in 1982.
I preached my first seven minute sermon and my younger brothers got saved.
I led my mom to Christ in 1991 over the phone.
My brother led my grandmother to Christ in 1995.
He defined rakats as prayers.
He defined injeel as angels.
I rolled out my rug and prayed in the bathroom at school.
I wore a turban on my head.
I had an accent and spoke broken English.
I was not made fun of by Christians because of what I wore.
What is the truth? Who knows, but the following contradictions exist. Ergun Caner has stated on The John Ankerberg Show that he was born in Istanbul, Turkey. In other places he states that he had nothing to do with his brothers coming to Christ. Court records indicate that Ergun immigrated to America in 1969 and was raised in Ohio. His high school yearbook shows that he was very active in school, including drama. There are no pictures of Ergun wearing a turban on his head. Since he was raised in Ohio from age three on, he speaks fluent English. Rakats means verses, not prayers. Injeel means Gospel, not angels. His dad was not like a pastor in Islam. He wasn’t trained in Islamic Jihad in Turkey or Europe. He didn’t meet Americans for the first time in 1978 and discover that they didn’t hate him. He was not disowned by his family, only his non-custodial father.
From just one sermon, given at Prestonwood Baptist Church in 2001 and replayed on Focus on the Family in 2010, flows numerous falsehoods. Did he just misspeak all of the following? Is that even possible? Or was he intentionally misrepresenting his testimony to make it more appealing to the audience?
Ergun Caner stated the following:
I was born in Sweden.
I was raised in Turkey.
I was trained in Islamic Jihad to do what the terrorist did on 9/11.
I was like a preacher’s kid.
I was taught to believe that Americans hated me.
I came to America in 1978.
I arrived in Brooklyn.
I spoke broken English.
I went to a revival at the invitation of a friend.
I was saved in 1982.
I preached my first seven minute sermon and my younger brothers got saved.
I led my mom to Christ in 1991 over the phone.
My brother led my grandmother to Christ in 1995.
He defined rakats as prayers.
He defined injeel as angels.
I rolled out my rug and prayed in the bathroom at school.
I wore a turban on my head.
I had an accent and spoke broken English.
I was not made fun of by Christians because of what I wore.
What is the truth? Who knows, but the following contradictions exist. Ergun Caner has stated on The John Ankerberg Show that he was born in Istanbul, Turkey. In other places he states that he had nothing to do with his brothers coming to Christ. Court records indicate that Ergun immigrated to America in 1969 and was raised in Ohio. His high school yearbook shows that he was very active in school, including drama. There are no pictures of Ergun wearing a turban on his head. Since he was raised in Ohio from age three on, he speaks fluent English. Rakats means verses, not prayers. Injeel means Gospel, not angels. His dad was not like a pastor in Islam. He wasn’t trained in Islamic Jihad in Turkey or Europe. He didn’t meet Americans for the first time in 1978 and discover that they didn’t hate him. He was not disowned by his family, only his non-custodial father.
From just one sermon, given at Prestonwood Baptist Church in 2001 and replayed on Focus on the Family in 2010, flows numerous falsehoods. Did he just misspeak all of the following? Is that even possible? Or was he intentionally misrepresenting his testimony to make it more appealing to the audience?
The facts have been established over the last few months. They are beyond doubt. Whatever Liberty comes up with, it is not at liberty to change the truth of those facts.
I stand by what I wrote even tho some folks just use a part of it so the whole is not understood in what context it was written. Kinda sounds like something Caner might do.
The whole post stated:
Some people are more easily convinced than other. Sometimes this is a good thing and sometimes it is not. I am appreciative of those who wait for facts while at the same time I appreciate those who make sure the facts are not ignored.
Unfortunately, most folks who fall into either category do so for the wrong reasons. That has been already been proved in this tiresome thread.
I pray the right things will be done and I realize that no matter the outcome, the God that I have faith in, will still be just as sovereign and just as loving as before.
Not just : I am appreciative of those who wait for facts while at the same time I appreciate those who make sure the facts are not ignored.
I appreciate your balance. But what wrong reasons do you see in this "tiresome" thread that most people are committing?
I hope your above statement doesn't describe me. All I want is for LU to act scripturally with regard to the documented falsehoods of its seminary president. The documentation of falsehoods is not in dispute. Caner's own words convict him. Now, what is Caner going to do about his known falsehoods? What is LU going to do with regard to a leader intentionally misrepresenting his background?
Yes, this thread is tiring, because unrepentant sin is tiring. I wonder how tired God must be with us? Remember how tired he got with the nation of Israel. He was so tired of their unrepentant hearts that he told Moses that he was going to destroy them.
Unrepentant sin is very tiring. I have a 17 year old son who lies all the time - about grades, curfew, etc. It is very tiring.
Are you trying to say that those of us who see the lies of Mr. Caner are somehow naive? Or are you saying that many who who don't believe the facts of the case are at fault? The latter is the safe ground that should be occupied.
There is no need to wait for facts. The facts have been quite abundant in the last few months. Any more evidence just increases Caner's culpibility.
I certainly support those who do't ignore the facts like many have been trying to do over the last few months. They keep attempting to bury the evidence and deal in irrelevancies to off-set the main issure.
Those who are waiting for the facts are in error. The facts have already been clearly established.
Those who don't want the facts ignored are in the right. The Lord honors their efforts.
You haven't proven anything.
If by the use of the word "outcome" you are referencing Liberty's decision on June 30th --- that won't be the end of this issue. There is a high probability that they will try to white-wash the whole sordid mess.
Of course God remains sovereign and loving as he remains throughout eternity. That was never in question.
You have proven my point.
Come on, John. The facts are in. Rippon asked you to clarify. Is this the best you can do?
When you state that the thread is tiresome, you clothe yourself in an air of moral and intellectual superiority. Any who address the issue henceforth are doing so for the wrong reasons, according to you. So now you have been challenged to clarify.
Wake up, John. Lying is a sin. The last time I checked, it was one of the big ten. Caner has lied repeatedly. Watch his videos. Listen to his sermons. Compare Caner to Caner. It is so obvious that your statement that the facts still need to come in is itself a lie.
My son would love you for a dad.
Source? Not that I don't believe you, but if I were to cite this in a letter, I need a source.
It was in his "apology" given in February, 2010. You should be able to find it if you google "Caner apology." I have found it online. Caner has removed the statement from his web page.
Consider these two verses found in the last two chapters of Revelation.
First God the Father states (Rev. 21:8):
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfer. This is the second death."
Then, Jesus speaks (Rev. 22:15):
"Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."
These words from God the Father and God the Son are scary words indeed.
Consider these two verses found in the last two chapters of Revelation.
First God the Father states (Rev. 21:8):
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfer. This is the second death."
Then, Jesus speaks (Rev. 22:15):
"Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."
These words from God the Father and God the Son are scary words indeed.
Ruiz,
http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010/04/caners-apology-i-have-never.html
and
http://www.fakeexmuslims.com/reergun25thfebstatement.htm
and here
http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/
http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010/04/caners-apology-i-have-never.html
and
http://www.fakeexmuslims.com/reergun25thfebstatement.htm
and here
http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/
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