I am as nearly as anti-Bush as you are - that doesn't mean that I have to attack the entire American electoral process. I do understand that many europeans only dislike Bush, but your hatred of Bush led you to falsly attack the whole process. If Kerry had won the elecotral college but lost the popular vote I think that you would not have called the system antiquated.
And since this thread is supposed to be about Europe - how do you defend the fact that 80% of the French people opposed your president in the last election and the only reason he had such a majority in the run-off is that his opponent was a fascist? </font>[/QUOTE]I did not attack the system, I criticised it and said it did not seem adequate to a democracy, or even a republic (France is also a republic, after all). And I do not hate Bush, I just happen to dislike the way he governs, and think that he is not a very good Christian. i have no hate for him and no love for Kerry either. If Kerry had won, I would still think the same thing about the electoral college.
You must have read my previous post by now about Chirac so I will just repeat here that between 75 and 80% of the French voters plebiscited Chirac in the Second round. In the first round, LePen's extreme right party, which usually gets around 10-12% of votes, doubled its number of votes because around 13% of the French population decided to make a protest vote. Nothing new, it is typical of the French voters. Politicians in France do not mess with the French voters. They'd have riots or a revolution on their hands in a thunderbolt flash.
These 13% then went on voting for Chirac in the second round, as only the most conservative would have dared vote that way in the first round. It was a warning to the government and also to the arab community.
Corinne
Europe, are you nuts?
Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Ps104_33, Nov 27, 2004.
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Okay - I knew eventually you would give me cause to praise the French people. They at least have to courage (in the first round of voting) to lodge a protest vote. I also admire the fact that the French people realise that there voice means something in an election.
I still think you are 100% wrong to criticise the Electoral College. America acts as a Republic, not a Democracy. Our states elect the president, not the populace. I think when it is all said and done the EU executive will also be chosen by the member states, not by the people of Europe as an electoral body. -
Originally posted by corinne:
and many Christians do not share your point of view or think he is a bad Christian. And I am not anti-evangelical Christian, I am one of you. Do not confuse faith choices with political affiliations.
corinneClick to expand... -
Originally posted by Scott J:
[qb]A lot of us love America and what it stands for, we just do not like the Bush Administration and what it is doing to your liberties.Click to expand...
What he's doing to our liberties? It is the liberals in this country who are determined to suppress the free speech of conservative Christians. It is the liberals who want to strip us of our property rights. It is the liberals who want to take away our right to keep and bear arms (original intent: to be the last check against out of control government). It is the liberals who insist on denying the right to life to 1.4 million babies per year. Should I go on?
Click to expand...
Liberals don't rival well with conservative political websites. There is no real equivalent on the left to Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Co. Please don't mention James Carville, few liberals even read him or know who he is. And you are free to make movies like Michael Moore does (first amendment is not a one-way street, it works both ways).
Property rights I don't know about, but gun rights, what a joke. There are people selling guns without background checks who should not and people being killed in the US every day with Eagle claw type of bullets and machine-guns. Explain to me how a deer hunter needs these bullets or a machine gun. I have nothing against guns and hunting, but sales of guns who can shoot 40 rounds should be forbidden. Law-abiding citizens can own guns, liberals don't have a problem with that. What they have a problem with is potential murderers being allowed to buy guns to kill, when you should only have one to defend yourself.
About abortion, you are wrong to think that all democrats agree with it. There are a lot of pro-life democrats, and I would be one of them if I was american. I am for the protection of the unborn, but I also think that we live in the 20th century and that outlawing abortion would just be a regression to the prehistoric times.
What puzzles me is how you can be for sanctity of life when talking about unborn babies, and yet condone the death penalty of living beings.
Are some lives more saint than others, more worthy than others?
CorinneClick to expand... -
Originally posted by C4K:
Okay - I knew eventually you would give me cause to praise the French people. They at least have to courage (in the first round of voting) to lodge a protest vote. I also admire the fact that the French people realise that there voice means something in an election.Click to expand...
I still think you are 100% wrong to criticise the Electoral College. America acts as a Republic, not a Democracy. Our states elect the president, not the populace. I think when it is all said and done the EU executive will also be chosen by the member states, not by the people of Europe as an electoral body.Click to expand...
Corinne -
It looks like you dislike a lot more about America than just President Bush.
You do have a point though. Americans who live there really think their society is liberal, in the world scope it is indeed a conservative culture. -
Originally posted by corinne:
All I know is that the French people will not accept anything threatening the integrity of our nation and its values. But since the European constitution is a French idea, I think that with a bit of luck, we will be ok.
CorinneClick to expand... -
Originally posted by corinne:
I fail to see how liberals in America are ever going to suppress your first amendment rights considered that most of the media is conservative controlled,Click to expand...and the internet counts more conservative sites than democratic sites and more internet users vote conservative than democrat (dixit the studies on the subject).Click to expand...
Liberals don't rival well with conservative political websites. There is no real equivalent on the left to Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Co.Click to expand...Please don't mention James Carville, few liberals even read him or know who he is.Click to expand...And you are free to make movies like Michael Moore does (first amendment is not a one-way street, it works both ways).Click to expand...
Property rights I don't know about, but gun rights, what a joke. There are people selling guns without background checks who should not and people being killed in the US every day with Eagle claw type of bullets and machine-guns.Click to expand...Explain to me how a deer hunter needs these bullets or a machine gun.Click to expand...I have nothing against guns and hunting, but sales of guns who can shoot 40 rounds should be forbidden.Click to expand...Law-abiding citizens can own guns, liberals don't have a problem with that.Click to expand...
Concealed carry laws have reduced crime far more than gun control ever did. One to in Georgia had an ordinance that every homeowner had to own a gun... and publicized it. It is doubtful that everyone obeyed the law but crime dropped significantly even as surrounding towns saw a rise.What they have a problem with is potential murderers being allowed to buy guns to kill, when you should only have one to defend yourself.Click to expand...
About abortion, you are wrong to think that all democrats agree with it. There are a lot of pro-life democrats, and I would be one of them if I was american.Click to expand...I am for the protection of the unborn, but I also think that we live in the 20th century and that outlawing abortion would just be a regression to the prehistoric times.Click to expand...
What puzzles me is how you can be for sanctity of life when talking about unborn babies, and yet condone the death penalty of living beings.Click to expand...
Murderers have performed the ultimate act of rights violation and should face an equitable penalty. I also think rape should be treated on par with murder as far as punishments are concerned.
Are some lives more saint than others, more worthy than others?
Click to expand... -
Corinne,
I think you are making the mistake of equating the Republican party with conservatim. That used to be true to some degree, but over the last 10-20 years a shift has taken place. The Repblican party and the Democrat party are both liberal, and their policies, overall, are endorsed by the major media. There is no effective opposition at this time. -
Based on what I've read here John Kerry had it right. If Americans had a question of how or what to do we would just go to the U.N. and let them tell us what to do.
I am always amazed that everybody in the world knows what we should do better than we do. -
Scott
"Why do Europeans hate Bush so much? You expect American's to lead then complain when we do."
"
In Bush's case it's that whole wrong direction thing I guess.
"We should spend our money protecting ourselves, drop out of international trade and environmental treaties, cut off foreign aid"
"
Trust me most of those are beneficial for the US, even the foreign aid. -
Originally posted by mioque:
Scott
"Why do Europeans hate Bush so much? You expect American's to lead then complain when we do."
"
In Bush's case it's that whole wrong direction thing I guess.Click to expand...
Trust me most of those are beneficial for the US, even the foreign aid.Click to expand...
'Trust me', if it was your Euros and blood that kept order in the world, you would appreciate our frustration with current European criticism and in some cases betrayal. -
Why does everyone capitilise "euro" but not dollar, yen, or pound?
It is "euro" and the plural of euro is technically "euro".
Just a note for future reference.
[ December 03, 2004, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: C4K ] -
Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite SupporterOriginally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
Corinne,
I think you are making the mistake of equating the Republican party with conservatim. That used to be true to some degree, but over the last 10-20 years a shift has taken place. The Repblican party and the Democrat party are both liberal, and their policies, overall, are endorsed by the major media. There is no effective opposition at this time.Click to expand...
Yours in Christ
Matt -
Yeah, you are rather messed up over there. :D ;)
Seriously, though, you make a good point about perceptions. Still, when you think about American politics, you will become confused if you assume that there is a big difference between our two major parties. That's why many Americans are confused over it. -
Originally posted by C4K:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by corinne:
All I know is that the French people will not accept anything threatening the integrity of our nation and its values. But since the European constitution is a French idea, I think that with a bit of luck, we will be ok.
CorinneClick to expand...
Corinne -
...Snicker snicker...
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Originally posted by corinne:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by C4K:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by corinne:
All I know is that the French people will not accept anything threatening the integrity of our nation and its values. But since the European constitution is a French idea, I think that with a bit of luck, we will be ok.
CorinneClick to expand...
Corinne </font>[/QUOTE]I think you missed a compliment again Corrine. I was saying that your arguments have have proven just the opposite. -
Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite SupporterOriginally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
Yeah, you are rather messed up over there. :D ;)
Seriously, though, you make a good point about perceptions. Still, when you think about American politics, you will become confused if you assume that there is a big difference between our two major parties. That's why many Americans are confused over it.Click to expand...
Yours in Christ
Matt
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