So I see, you say an action by me is necessary only after I put you on the spot to answer your own concern. I will ask again, do you support the law or again, what else do you entertain? You are evading and it is obvious mandym.
Evangelicals least likely to support politicians & policies that reflect Jesus' msg.
Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Magnetic Poles, Mar 4, 2011.
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Maybe Sonjeo would like to suggest that liberals and democrats use a Christian approach to healthcare overhaul by telling the truth and eliminating the bribes and corruption.
That would require repentence of their sins by turning away from the old approach, beginning anew and making it a Christian process.
It is a Christian's duty to oppose the corruption and lies of Obamacare proponents. -
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JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I should remind you that Obama is offering this bill as a compromise to the Republicans. Want to know why? This healthcare law is for the most part the same law the Republicans were offering previously. It was their business oriented, free market oriented alternative they so strongly supported against the Democrats. It would be interesting to hear what these mountain of lies and corruption are, you say the law is based on. -
Tell us why Christians should support a law that was passed over the objections of the American people using lies, bribery and corruption to get it done.
Do you not agree it is a Christian's duty to oppose lying, bribery and political corruption?
If you do, then you cannot , in good conscience support Obamacare. If you don't, then I'd have to question your committment to Christ and His principles. -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
A single payer system has its own set of problems but it's undeniable that there are huge administrative cost savings to be found.
With private insurance there is no incentive to control costs. If a new treatment becomes available it is automatically covered. Same with new drugs.
Here are my rate increases in the past few years:
2008-2009 24.1%
2009-2010 19.6%
2010-2011 27.2%
I have upped my deductible otherwise the increases would have been even higher. The way my insurance is set up the insurance company doesn't pay out one dime of coverage until I have spent $10,600 out of pocket in monthly premiums and my $7,200 deductible. Of course every July the deductible counter is reset to zero and there are monthly premium increases. Meanwhile, they've decreased their lifetime payout from unlimited to 10 million and now it is 5 million. Also they've eliminated co-pays and prescription drug coverage at my pricing level over the years.
I can't go to another company because the cost is within 1% or 2% of my current carrier. The pricing structure at the other companies is virtually identical. I expect my rates will go up about 20% this coming July. I am in good health.
There are plenty of problems with the for-profit motive in health care. The usual laws of supply and demand are meaningless as NO ONE can go without health care. There is a built-in unending, in fact increasing, demand for it.
The challenge is to find a balance between private insurance and government regulations. -
huh? how do you figure -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Health care experts point to the development and diffusion of medical technology as primary factors in explaining the persistent difference between health spending and overall economic growth, with some arguing that new medical technology may account for about one-half or more of real long-term spending growth.
http://www.kff.org/insurance/upload/7670_02.pdf pg. 13 -
Again, What are the mountain of lies and corruption you claim are in in the new healthcare law?
Most bills in congress are always passed over some Americans objections. In the beginning the bill was slightly favored by Americans but after all the crying and frighful demonizing by the Republicans opinion became negative on the bill. After hearing little or nothing but this fearfulness people came to believe this but when they now see what is actually in the bill they favor Obamacare. The rightwing has been counting on ignorance and there is nothing Christian about that. Now:
When asked on the specifics of the new healthcare law Americans overwhelmingly support ObamaCare:
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"The law provides tax credits to small businesses that offer coverage to their employees" -
Americans support this - 83% to 14%
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"The law gradually closes the Medicare prescription drug 'doughnut hole' or coverage gap so seniors will no longer be required to pay the full cost of their medications when they reach the gap" -
Americans support this - 75% to 20%
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"The law will provide financial help to low and moderate income Americans who don't get insurance through their jobs to help them purchase coverage" -
Americans support this - 74% to 22%
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"The law establishes a national, voluntary insurance program in which working adults can purchase insurance to help pay for long-term care services they might need in the future" -
Yep, Americans supports this - 74% to 20%
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"The law will increase the Medicare payroll tax on earnings for upper income Americans" -
Americans support this - 60% to 34%
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In the latest poll on mandatory health insurance, even though the Republicans have beat this fearful drum relentlessly basing their primary objection on this point- "Do you think all Americans should be required to have health insurance, or don't you think they should?" -
Americans support this - 55% to 46% Wow!
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When Americans are asked whether they support ObamaCare, after having been deluged with negative rightwing progaganda couched in the usual frightful paranoid terminology, Americans are shy on support but when asked, as if they have any intelligence at all, about the specifics of what is actually in the law they overwhelmingly support ObamaCare.
I agree it is a Christian's duty to oppose lying, bribery and political corruption but the law, as you full well know has already been passed. The means in passing it is behind us but again you are still disengenous unless of course you oppose all laws passed by congress. Jesus is not concerned with you worrying about the natures of government that you would pass up, on that objection, the desperate healthcare help needed by millions of American families. Jesus said we should give to Caesar what is his and give to God what is God's. Jesus knew the corrupt ways and laws of Rome, the brutality, the perverted baths and the fact Caesar claimed to be God. Are you saying that Jesus was not commited to His principles nor commited to who He was supposed to be?
I think you may be under such power of your ideology that you are placing it even over the love of Christ you should be imparting to others through what you support. -
That there's funny. -
So, sonjeo...since apparently we now live in a pure democracy (instead of a constitutional republic)--am I to assume that whenever 50% plus one is in favor of something, it should be so?
Third trimester abortions, maybe?
Look...America is getting dumber by the day. Fewer and fewer people have the intelligence and common sense to understand the unsustainability of socialized medicine, and the welfare state. More and more folks are on the public dole. Fewer and fewer people take responsibility for their own care. More and more people expect folks to take care of them.
I fully anticipate that at some point, a majority of Americans will be too lazy to provide the basics for themselves. That doesn't make it right. -
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There is no evidence of that but there is clear evidence to the contrary. You cannot force people to purchase something just because they are living. Such an idea goes against the very fabric and freedom of the US. -
Using you twisted logic, if you found stolen money, you would keep it because it was already lost to the person that it originally belonged to. No righting wrongs for your brand of "Christianity".
It appears you only oppose it when it's in line with your political ideology.
If at all. -
JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
The second is that the government has no competition. Not only do they have no incentive to keep costs down, government agencies consistently spend more money and, in fact, must do so in order to get more funding.
Could you please give us an example of any government agency that has ever been concerned with "keeping costs down"?
Also, could you please tell us what you think of the "Complete Lives Program"?
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JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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OK...I'm a broccoli grower, and I think you should eat more.
I manage to get a law passed that the IRS can fine you (or worse) if you don't buy broccoli from me, or some other grower.
That's constitutional?
Crazy, that is.
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