Evangelist Bob Gray arrested

Is this the same Dr. Bob Gray pastor of Longview Baptist Temple in Texas? The man that claims to have saved over 1,000,000 souls? The same Dr. Gray that is an Hyles pupil? There may be two Dr. Bob Grays? I don't think this is the same one. Here is the link to his church:

http://www.lbtministries.com/

[ May 21, 2006, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: AF Guy N Paradise ]

 

ever seen his picture, AF?

The link shows a pic of him. I am not sure if it is the same one or not.

 

Squire, I would have to agree.

This pastor at lbt has been there for 26 years and it says nothing of trinity baptist, so I am quite sure it is another Bob Gray.

 

No, it's not the same one at all. Different people, different states, different church name, etc..

 

The repentance would have been obvious, by signs such as the following.

1. Stepped down from his position as a leader

2. Admitted to the authorities that he broke the laws of the United States and taken the consequences

3. Taken the steps to apologize to those he hurt and make restitution (those molested, his wife, those he sinned against by keeping his position while he was still in sin, etc..)

4. Abstain from temptation for the known weakness. (stay away from children)

Repentance is an action, not a feeling that nobody but the repenter knows about. To repent, the person you offended MUST be addressed if possible.

 

He is not the Texas Bob Gray. This guy was pastor of TBC in Jax for many years. He left the pastorate there a decade or so ago and went to Germany as a missionary. He came back to the states many years ago and was an active evangelist.

 

GinaL,

Repentance is not confession. Repentance is a turning away from sin.

Confession to another human may or may not follow.

Let me give you an example...

Suppose I walked into a store you were working at or owned and stole a candy bar. I walked out and was never caught by you. Now, I have sinned against you or the owners because someone had to pay for that candy bar.

Now, suppose after walking out I began feeling guilty and went back in and replaced that candy bar in its bin.

I have returned the candy bar without telling you about it. In feeling guilt and returning the candy bar and vowing to myself that I would never ever steal again but would pay for all i needed or wanted I have repented. I turned from stealing to paying for things.

But you knew nothing about it.

Now, with these women, I know it is a different scenario. But we cannot march Dr Gray out to the gallows until it is absolutely proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is indeed guilty of the charges levied against him.

 

Diggin,
If you will read Gina's post, #4 is repentence as #1 is confession.

 

Yes there are two Bob Grays. One in Texas and one in Florida. The accused is the one from Florida.

 

Let me rewrite your story, and you tell me if it makes sense.


Suppose I walked into a world God created and sinned by molesting you. I was never caught by anyone on earth. Now, I have sinned against you and the God because someone had to pay for my sin.

Now, suppose after a number of years, I began feeling guilty...

I apologized to God without telling you about it. In feeling guilt and apologizing to God and vowing to myself that I would never ever steal again but would not pay for all i needed or wanted I have repented. I turned from molesting you and your friends, to not molesting you and your friends.

But you knew nothing about it.

And God knew my heart and it was all good. The people who think I might not *really* be sorry are big meanies, right?

Right?

THINK about what you say.

The man didn't steal a candy bar and replace it. He stole innocence and trust and he probably stole away the joy of Christianity. (allegedly) The heart and soul of a child cannot be compared with a Snickers when it comes what constitutes repentence for stealing it. Sorry.

 

Gina,

The allegations have not been proven yet.

It is wrong to judge him as guilty when it has not yet been proven.

 

Why is it wrong? He's arrested. He's admitted to french kissing preteens in his office. That's sexual contact. I have every right to judge that, as a human, as a Christian, as the victim of an idiot like him, as the mother of 3 pre-teens.

No, I don't trust the media though. I've seen the police and media twist and turn statements. For example, saying that "he admitted to kissing girls in his office years ago" may be something he admitted. However, it doesn't mean it was meant to say "I kissed underage girls in my church office". It could mean he was unmarried, had an office at church or at home, brought his dates there, fully of age, and kissed them.

So no, I don't trust any "statement" the news presents as far as what so and so supposably said about any one topic. You have to see the whole deal to know if it has any validity. The fact that he was arrested is far more convincing to me than his own statement, because before the police will arrest anyone that a stink is gonna be made over, they make sure they have some pretty strong evidence. (unless a whole lot of people are involved that are all working to make a false arrest and conviction happen, but for someone that old and not that powerful, that makes no sense because it doesn't benefit anyone, unless you want to think it's an atheist conspiracy plot or something!)

So far, the odds are that this man is guilty. I guess you can go ahead and feel offended that I feel that way. I don't know why you would, but I guess we'll both live.

 

Why is it wrong? He's arrested. He's admitted to french kissing preteens in his office. That's sexual contact. I have every right to judge that, as a human, as a Christian, as the victim of an idiot like him, as the mother of 3 pre-teens. </font>[/QUOTE]Gina,

Is there a source for him confessing to the frech kissing in some news agency? If this is true, then they should execute him.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Joseph, here it is:

CLICK HERE for link

 

Execution for French kissing would be rather extreme.

Since we can barely execute a person in this country for committing a brutal murder I doubt that we are going to start executing for French kissing anyone. And as a proponent of the death penalty I do not support executing anyone for any crime short of murder.

 

He made sexual contact with a minor. I think they should execute him. Now, next question. Did the other leaders of the Church / School cover it up. If so, then they should also be arrested.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Joseph, if it indeed is true, he should be prosecuted, but not executed.

 

The problem is that overt sexual behavior imposed on a child can have profound and long-lasting effects.

We should not see this as we would the same act imposed on an adult. If someone grabbed you and french kissed you against your will, you'd be upset, angry, and insulted. But you'd get over it.

A child can, if the attacker is trusted and an authority figure, take a lot more damage than that. It is a deep betrayal of the adult/child relationship.

And of such things, a lifetime of pain can result. It can induce the child to grow up to repeat the action on other children.

I wouldn't execute him, but I'd make sure he wasn't free to do it again.

 

Nah, I'm with Joseph. Any adult who has sexual contact with a child should be executed.

The vast majority of these predators don't molest just one child, but molest over and over and there is no "cure" short of death. Jail only makes them wait longer for their next opportunity.

Here in my part of the country we just had a man convicted of molesting and raping 4 females from his own family over a span of 30 years. It is reported that he also molested two others, but charges weren't brought up for those two for reasons unreported. Thankfully, this guy won't see the light of day again, but only because he is now old and will be dead of natural causes before he serves out his sentence(13 counts with sentences ranging from 10-20 to 25-99 years per count).

Makes you wonder how many others he didn't get caught molesting in the last 30 years.