Evil men, seducers, and Bible translation work

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Does 2 Timothy 3v13 mean that we cannot trust any Bible translators after 1611 (as revised and corrected in 1769)?

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Thoughts appreciated.

 

[JMSR]

I don't think it matters if I use a NIV or a KJV or a NASB, ESV, etc. etc. The gospel is still the same to me. Likewise put any of those, including the KJV in the hands of a false teacher, and NONE of them correct their teaching.

 

[annsni]

So someone *wonder who that is* is suggesting that Ephesians 3:13 is speaking of modern translators?

Then they just accused John of Japan of being evil. Wow

Anyone who would accuse any of the modern people who have worked diligently on faithful translations of God's Word into modern language, knowing full well that they were working on the very Word of God and took that job with all seriousness - has a screw loose.

 

[Mexdeaf]

"Evil men and seducers" would have no interest in Bible translations by default.

 

[Trotter]

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men. You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra--which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
(2Ti 3:1-15 ESV)

I see nothing in the passage that mentions anything about a specific time, i.e. after 1611 (or 1769, or whenever). Nor do I see anything about translation work.

Sounds to me like someone needs some way to justify themselves in regards to a specific bible translation and are willing to resort to lies and slander to do so. Such antics are a complete affront to God and His word as they drag what is precious, the revealed word of God as given to the original penmen, and drags it down and tramples it underfoot in the muck and mire of man's own petty opinions and man-made doctrines.

God did not decree that any single translation, or series of "editions", should be the sole repository for His divine word. Praise the Lord for this! If He had, it would have been in Greek (the language of the New Testament and the Septuagint), or Latin (which was the dominant language translation for well over a millennium). It would not have been English as it is a rather new and unstable language in that words radically change their meanings in a rather short span of time.

 

[SolaSaint]

Many of the later translations use more and better manuscripts to translate from, so in my opinion they are closer to the original autographs than the 1611 KJV. There have been many archeological finds since then that have rendered much better manuscripts, so to believe that anything modern is evil is not warranted. :thumbsup:

 

[SolaSaint]

Does 2 Timothy 3v13 mean that we cannot trust any Bible translators after 1611 (as revised and corrected in 1769)?



Thoughts appreciated.

Maybe supporters of Wycliffe and Tyndale would have asked the same question in 1612 about the editors of the KJV? Food for thought!

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

Does 2 Timothy 3v13 mean that we cannot trust any Bible translators after 1611 (as revised and corrected in 1769)?

Sure, that's a concern. But, personally, I'm more worried about letting heaped teachers having itching ears come anywhere near me, something predicted in the following chapter!

:tonofbricks:

 

[Baptist4life]

Many of the later translations use more and better manuscripts to translate from, so in my opinion they are closer to the original autographs than the 1611 KJV. There have been many archeological finds since then that have rendered much better manuscripts, so to believe that anything modern is evil is not warranted. :thumbsup:

There is absolutely no way to PROVE those statements, so how can you make them?

 

[Mexdeaf]

There is absolutely no way to PROVE those statements, so how can you make them?

He did say "opinion". And in my book, one man's opinion is as valid as another's.

 

[Baptist4life]

He did say "opinion". And in my book, one man's opinion is as valid as another's.

NO. He only said "opinion" here:

in my opinion they are closer to the original autographs

Not here:

Many of the later translations use more and better manuscripts to translate from,

or here:

There have been many archeological finds since then that have rendered much better manuscripts

So I stand by my post. Don't make those statements like they are fact, because you cannot PROVE them.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Could we stay on track please - the question involves the capacity of 21st century Bible scholars to render an accurate translation based on the 'evil men and seducers' passage.

 

[annsni]

NO. He only said "opinion" here:


Not here:
or here:



So I stand by my post. Don't make those statements like they are fact, because you cannot PROVE them.

Or you can prove they are not.

 

[Baptist4life]

Or you can prove they are not.

That sounds like something a Catholic would say! :tongue3:


Just kiddin!

 

[annsni]

Could we stay on track please - the question involves the capacity of 21st century Bible scholars to render an accurate translation based on the 'evil men and seducers' passage.

The question should have an additional aspect to it: Are there men and women who are faithful followers of the Lord Jesus Christ and are led by the Spirit to create a faithful translation of the Bible in the "vulgar" tongue of all in this world? If the answer is no, then honestly, we as a body of believers are doomed. If it is yes, then God still touches hearts, directs the mind and still can be sure that ALL hear His Word.

 

[RAdam]

First of all, nobody alive today has ever seen the original manuscripts. It drives me nuts when people talk about this being closer to the original manuscripts. That's a ridiculous statement and should be dropped post haste. I know some will pull out "the scholars" but guess what, they haven't seen the original manuscripts either.

Now, evil men and seducers refer to those who would attack Christianity through deceit and seduction with the aim of leading people away from the faith. These are people who come up with false religions, spread anti-biblical ideas, persecute the saints and the truth they believe in, etc. It describes a clear agenda on the part of the evil men and seducers to corrupt true religion. I can't apply this to people who are sincerely using a different translation than I am, or sincerely tries to translate the bible. I will only if that person knowingly and purposefully corrupts the word.

 

[Mexdeaf]

We have faithful translations of God's Word in spite of the fact that all of us are inherently evil.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

F

Now, evil men and seducers refer to those who would attack Christianity through deceit and seduction with the aim of leading people away from the faith. These are people who come up with false religions, spread anti-biblical ideas, persecute the saints and the truth they believe in, etc. It describes a clear agenda on the part of the evil men and seducers to corrupt true religion. I can't apply this to people who are sincerely using a different translation than I am, or sincerely tries to translate the bible. I will only if that person knowingly and purposefully corrupts the word.

Exactly, and history teaches that the church thrives the most the more wicked the world becomes.

 

[BaptistLady02]

No, it doesn't include 21st Century Bible translators. We need modern translations.

 

[TC]

Does 2 Timothy 3v13 mean that we cannot trust any Bible translators after 1611 (as revised and corrected in 1769)?



Thoughts appreciated.

I do not believe it includes Christian Bible translators who are trying to honestly translate the Bible into another language (English or any other language) to the best of their ability. However, I believe it includes the translators of the JW's NWT because its sole purpose is to shore up errant JW doctrine.