Faith is a Gift, not just an action.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed1689, May 3, 2019.

  1. Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We cannot exercise faith in God without God. Paul makes clear that Faith is a gift by which we are saved.

    Ephesians 2:8-10

    Faith is given to the elect by God.
     
  2. Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,800
    Likes Received:
    2,470
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I take it you are limiting this to saving faith?
    All intelligent beings have natural faith.
     
  3. Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thought that was pretty obvious.
     
  4. InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
  5. Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Try again.
     
  6. InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Anybody that can read can see the gift is "salvation through faith" and not merely "faith".
     
  7. Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The gift is the whole statement.

    2:8 faith; and that not of yourselves. “That” refers to the entire previous statement of salvation, not only the grace but the faith. Although men are required to believe for salvation, even that faith is part of the gift of God which saves and cannot be exercised by one’s own power. God’s grace is preeminent in every aspect of salvation (cf. Ro 3:20; Gal 2:16).

    John F. MacArthur Jr., The MacArthur Study Bible: New American Standard Bible. (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 2006), Eph 2:8.
     
  8. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Which is biblical, for how can spiritual dead sinners at war against God just "decide" to now obey and accept Him?
     
  9. Gorship Active Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    50
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I don't think posting MacArthur changes anyone's mind. We're not catholic and he's no pope.

    For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
    Ephesians 2:8‭-‬9 NKJV

    reads to me that the "grace through faith" here is being described as the gift which I believe aligns with ITLs post.


    Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk
     
  10. Gorship Active Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    50
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Some sorta enabling grace. Like a... Grace that's.. Almost.. Prevenient...

    Previenient grace.
     
  11. Reformed Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    4,960
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Of course, this understanding is predicated on total inability; that the sinner does not possess the capacity for any positive spiritual action (Romans 3; 8:7; 1 Corinthians 2:14).
     
  12. Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What you and @InTheLight are ignoring though is that faith is PART of the gift. We did not have faith before.
     
  13. InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Centurion in Matthew 8 who begged Jesus to heal his servant was a gentile and Jesus "marveled" at his faith and said he "found great faith in him". He told the man “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.

    So if Jesus was supposed to have gifted this man with faith so he could believe, why did he MARVEL at the faith he FOUND in him?
     
  14. Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And here is your problem. Jesus is not the one that gifts faith.
     
  15. InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Even if I were to accept your premise, and I don't, you still haven't addressed why Jesus "marveled" at this man's faith.
     
  16. Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well first, what is his faith in? Is it in Jesus to save him from his sins, or is it that Jesus could heal his son. Those aren't the same thing you know.
     
  17. MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    262
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If so then man would not have to do anything to get faith.

    Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
    MB
     
  18. Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are correct. Man does not have to do anything to get faith. It is a gift from God.
     
  19. MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    262
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not according to Rom, 10:17
    MB
     
  20. Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And how is faith not a gift according to Romans 10:17